Freshly Rebuilt Engine - Refuses to Start - Please Help

GoBerserk · 12-25-2005, 12:58 PM

So 914club.com seems down right now and I posted this at shoptalkforums.com but that place doesn't seem as frequented as this one. So here goes:

I have a freshly rebuilt engine that refuses to start. This is what we have:
Originally a 1.7 Block
1.8 Pistons and Cylinders
1.7 Heads machined to accept 1.8s
New Crankshaft
New Scat C25 Cam and Lifters
New ConRods
All new Seals and Bearings
Rebuilt Dual Weber 34 ICTs
New Facet Fuel Pump
.009 Distibuter
New Coil
New Rotor, we have both governed and un-governed
New Plugs and Wires

We assembled the engine per instuctions in the Tom Wilson VW Engine book and the Haynes manual.

We have oil pressure as indicated by the dash light going out.
We have spark indicated by the timing light and we pulled and looked at the plugs. The spark is small, but it's bright.
When we build fuel pressure the idle port in the carb drips fuel slowly and when we open the throttles the accel port squirts fuel.

To set the spark timing we turned the fan to 7 deg before the '0' mark on the fan and Cylinder 1 at TDC. Then we hooked the timing light up to plug one and turned the distributer CCW until the timing light flashed. At this point we tightened the distributer down.

When we crank it over, all she does is make a kind of pop or fart noise every few seconds, totally at random. This noise seems to happen regardless if the fuel pump is on or not.

Please Help!

SirAndy · 12-25-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoBerserk
When we crank it over, all she does is make a kind of pop or fart noise every few seconds, totally at random. This noise seems to happen regardless if the fuel pump is on or not.

plug wires off by one ??? make sure you got the right firing order ...

either that or timing is way off.

assuming you have the valves adjusted correctly ...

what are the leakdown and compression numbers ?

Andy

GoBerserk · 12-25-2005, 01:28 PM

1-4-3-2, Since we use 1 to set the timing I assume we're not one off but we can double check.

We've beens screwing with the timing for hours now with no luck.

The vavles are adjusted to .006" clearance at TDC for each cylinder.

We don't have a compression/leakdown checker

I know that sucks and would be an obvious thing to check and know if it's good or not. Saying we could secure one, what values should we be looking for?

SirAndy · 12-25-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoBerserk
1-4-3-2, Since we use 1 to set the timing I assume we're not one off but we can double check.

right direction? you can easily end up having the right order, but backwards ...

ask me how i know!

Andy

GoBerserk · 12-25-2005, 01:36 PM

The distributor's rotor turns CW as you look at it. I'm not at the car right this second. We had to take a break. But We'll double check.

Can we damage the engine by screwing with the timing like this? We need to run the engine at 2500 RPM for 20 mins to break the cam in and I don't want the timing to be super retarded or advanced during this time. Is there some other audial or visual clue we can use to get the timing right the first time? Or should we adjust it as the engine is running?

GoBerserk · 12-25-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

ask me how i know![/B]

What happens?

SirAndy · 12-25-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoBerserk
What happens?

exactly what you describe. no running, hard to turn over, but occassional backfire/fart ...

and yes, CW rotation ...

dunno, got gas, go spark. how about the coil? got a second one, just to make sure spark is strong enough?

Andy

GoBerserk · 12-25-2005, 01:48 PM

We'll have to trying reversing the wires.

We have a brand new coil. But we did keep the old one. We should probably try it.

I'll keep you posted.

Type 4 Unleashed · 12-25-2005, 02:17 PM

Hi, Goberserk, first check your valve lash, just make sure you have clearance with the piston at top dead center, their is a mark on the flywheel, when the mark is at the top, right at where the case halves meet, you are either at top dead center on NO.1 or NO.3, that can be determined by both valves being closed, on one of those cyl's.

When you have the mark at the top, go an approiate some nail polish, a bright easy to see color, from your wife ,sister, or mother, through the little window at the bottom of the tranny, paint a line on the flywheel, right at the case halves. What this does, when you have the mark on the flywheel at the top, and NO.1 is at TDC you will rotate the motor 180 degrees, which will bring the painted mark to the top, so now check NO.4 , rotate again untill the timing mark is at top, thats another 180 degs, check NO.3, rotate another 180 degs, check NO.2. While your rotating the motor, to be sure your turning the right way, have your dis cap off, and if your going the right way the rotor will rotate clockwise.

Your just checking to make sure you have some valve lash, no tight valves, don't worry about adjusting them yet, after you get her running, and get the cam and lifters broken in you'll have to do a valve adjustment after it cools down.

I think your valves are to tight, and I don't think you have your distributor cap wired right. Firing order 1-4-3-2, clockwise rotation.

You can do a search here for valve adjustments & cam breakin.

Hope this helps.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

Bleyseng · Bleyseng's Garage

sounds like its timed out 180 degrees or the firing order is goofy.

check everything again!!

Scrappy · 12-25-2005, 07:44 PM

Pull #1 spark plug.....stick finger in spark plug hole....turn engine slowly(by wrench or bump the starter)....when you feel compression, bring to TDC by mark on impeller.....look at dizzy.....where ever the rotor is pointing to, that's #1......place dizzy cap over dizzy....turn dizzy to nearest pole on cap....that's where #1 spark plug wire goes......

RandyLok · 08:15 PM

Listen to these guys. The spark is not getting to the right cylinder at the right time.

GoBerserk · 12-25-2005, 09:45 PM

Yeah, so something was out of phase 180 degrees. Not sure what though. Basically, we do the finger to find the compresion stroke, line up with the TDC on the impeller, and turn the dizzy to match. But we put 3 at that pole, not 1.

She hasn't started yet but we get: ra-ra-ra-put-put-put-ra-ra-ra-put-put-put, where the ra's are the starter and the put's are combusion.

Now that we have gotten a response from the engine we're pretty sure we can get it going. The car is being shown tomorrow, so we have to put the interior back in and give a good washing.

Thanks for all your help guys.

ken180 · 12-26-2005, 09:26 AM

Tom Wilsons book uses an INCORRECT procedure for setting up the distributor.

Set Flywheel to TDC, verify #1 piston is at top of cylinder, verify valves are closed and have proper gap AND verify the distributer rotor points to #1 spark plug wire.

Ken

GoBerserk · 12-26-2005, 01:27 PM

Thanks ken. So we got her started. He had our timing too advanced - we retarded it a little and she fired right up.