Identifying muffler

[DDS]

I have a '73 2.0 and need a muffler. I was going to buy a new Triad, but am already (way) over budget and have found a Monza in VGC about 3 hours from home and cheap. The problem is that the seller doesn't know if it is for a 2.0 or 1.7, and it is only the muffler. I know that two exhaust systems are interchangable provided the entire system is swapped. How can I identify over the phone whether this muffler is for a 2.0 or 1.7? It might be hard to describe 1" or so the higher position of the flanges without something to compare to.
Any thoughts? TIA

Dave

BTW - The pipe diameters are the same for both, and the mfr. couldn't help ('having trouble reading Mexican') because they aren't really manufactured consistently (!)(ie could be 1.5" pipe, could be 1.75", same part no. ) As I said, it's cheap...

[This message has been edited by DDS (edited 04-05-2001).]

[SteveStromberg]

1.7 36mm, 2.0 42mm. Steve

[Joe Bob]

If he is selling the heat exchangers as well, then it will fit any 914. The main difference is the flanges at the muffler and heat exchangers. Make sure to get the muffler hanger as well. Looks like a boomerang.

[DDS]

Thanks for the speedy replies gentlemen.
Unfortunately, no heat exchangers included and according to the mfr, their pipe's ID is the same for 1.7 and 2.0 at either 1.5 or 1.75 depending on whether they run out of 1.5" pipe that day. (No, I'm not kidding. ) So it sounds like it will be tough to tell without another unit for comparison. I take it that the bolt pattern on the flanges is identical?


[This message has been edited by DDS (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Joe Bob]

OK...the 70-74 1.7/1.8 and 73-74 2.0 flanges look the same. The ends on the 1.7/1.8 turn up a bit to tuck under the rear valance higher...and the 2.0 are straight out with no kink. Or I may have it bass ackwards, but that's how you tell the difference.

The muffler hanger for the 1.7/1.8 and the 2.0 is also different.

On the 75-76 cars the flanges are completely different.....

[TimW]

MikeZ has it right...according to my handy-dandy 914 Tech Tips 700 book I got for Christmas .

I just happened to have my Monza/2.0L heat exchangers off so I snapped this picture.

Note how when the muffler flange is vertical the center of the bottom bolt is about 3/4" off the ground. A 1.7L would probably be more like 3" off the ground. That’s probably a pretty good way to tell which is which, measure that vertical offset.

Hope this helps.

---

I just remembered I have a set of ’70-’74 1.7L, 1.8L heat exchangers (anyone want to buy them?).

As you can see in this picture, the flange bolt hole on the 1.7L (in front) is about 2 1/2" higher than the 2.0L’s (in back).

So have the guy check that measurement; around 3” it’s a 1.7/1.8L, around 1” it’s a 2.0L.

Tim



[This message has been edited by TimW (edited 04-05-2001).]

[DDS]

Eureka! Thanks guys. I've got a rotten 1.7 monza from my parts car so I can probably describe the flange ht vs flange ht to my buddy who will pick it up. Perfect! Many thanks.

Tim - are the Monzas as awful as other posts suggest?

Dave

[prattrc]

DDS,

AA says Monza is "relatively quiet". I would say it's "excessively loud". I had it on my 72 1.7, it woke the neighbors (and made my wife cry). Of course the engine was carbed too, so that may have had something to do with it. I thought the performance was quite nice though, big difference over a stock 1.8 anyway. If noise isn't a factor, go for it. Ray

[DDS]

Thanks Ray. What does your wife find so upsetting about carbs?
Dave

[TimW]

I’ve had two Monza’s in my time; the one I have now on my ’73 2.0L, and one on a ’71 1.7L I had years ago. Both were installed by the PO, so they weren’t really my choice.

I used both cars for daily driving, not to race, and I felt they were too loud for my tastes. I guess I’m just funny that way, not wanting to annoy my neighbors pulling into the drive at all hours of the night or taking off first thing in the morning. Also, in both cases they rusted out horribly in what I would consider a premature amount of time. Just look at the picture of my current one, the whole thing is rusted, not just a spot here and there, but the whole thing. True I don’t know exactly how old it is, but geeze, the whole thing shouldn’t rust out like that.

[Way back when] I replaced the ’71’s Monza with a Bursch, which as I recall was quieter. I couldn’t tell any difference in power and didn’t notice any difference in gas mileage from the 1.7L. But that may be due to any number of other factors?

I will say however that the 4 tale pipes from the Monza looks really cool (read “mean”), and they sound cool when you open them up .

Would I buy another one? Yes, if I were going for a cool sounding, cool looking, low restriction exhaust; and I didn’t mind, or I wanted, something loud.

Would I buy another one considering I live in an otherwise quiet neighborhood, and I don’t race it, and I don’t HAVE to squeeze every little ounce of HP out of it? Probably not. But then again I’m not sure what I’d consider as an alternative?

That’s my story. I guess I won’t really say Monzas are awful, they are what they are. Personally I would listen to the guy who’s tried every exhaust under the sun on his 914 and see what he says. Is that person out there somewhere?

Tim
’73 914 2.0L

[Joe Bob]

http://members.home.net/mtz1/index.html

Go here and check out the pics of my home made exhaust. I't on a 914/6 but you can do the same on a four....cost me $250.00.

Sounded great, not too loud and it does not rust out like the crappy Monza and Bursch do....

[DDS]

Thanks yet again Mike. Jeez, why make things simple? Your system appears to have a completely seperate exhaust for each cylinder bank criss-crossing at the joined (attached, not plumbed together) mufflers with the tailpipe exiting the valance at the side opposite its cylinder bank. Is that the basic idea?
Very nice job on that car BTW.
Dave

[Joe Bob]

I actually added a cross over later, it seemed to quite it down a bit. The cross over was just before the mufflers and it was a simple weld job....took fifteen minutes from start to finish at the muffler shop.

[DDS]

Thanks guys. I looked at the two exhaust hangers I have and they are different but the beefier from the 2.0 has been modified - I presume the PO used a 1.7 exhaust. A friend is picking up that monza on monday. If it has already been sold, I'll be doing the mikez thing for sure. Ticking things off the list...

[Joe Bob]

This guy has my old ride....
tom@screaming.com
He can send you smoe pics of the cross over set up if needed.

[DDS]

Well, my friend went to see the mint exhaust and it was, except that one of the mufflers was rusty on one end only. A little tap and crumble she went. I'll be looking at mufflers tonight to build my own. Many thanks. - Dave