I am soooo fed up - please help...

[Scott S]

I have been working on my damn car for a the past 6 months - I am at my wits end. I figured out todat that the only thing I have yet to replace are my rear shocks. Engine,tranny, paint, interior, front suspension, rubber, etc - I have every frickin' receipt. I did a 5 bolt conversion over the winter. It took a bit to gather all the parts (thanks to all who helped!). I took it to the shop to have the rear bearings pressed in. On my way there my brake pedal started to ratchet down at stop lights. It would pump up in less than one push. My master cylinder was replaced in '99 so I just figured I didn't get the brakes bled very well. The shop noticed a bit of breakfluid on one of the rear calipers. Steve S. hooked me up (sorry Pelican, but he had them ready to ship). My local high end parts store had the fronts so replaced all four - they went on very easy. Today I spent a good two hours bleeding the system. THE STUPID PEDAL STILL FADES! I went from dot 3 to Super Blue to make sure that I had completely flushed the system. Is it possible that my master cylinder has already failed? It is a 19mm unit and only has 1000 miles on it. The cars breaking was fine before I did this conversion. I am so sick of not being able to drive this car. But hey - it runs damn good sitting on jack stands...
I have this feeling that my calipers were fine and that the leak was from the venting clearance adjustment not being done correctly.
What do you all think? I thought I would go to the guys in the know before tearing out another MC.
Thanks!
Scott S

[Joe Bob]

Scott....take a few deep breathes, have a beer, a toke, a valium or whatever rocks yer boat....then bleed the things again.

Any time you replace a brake component like a M/C or a caliper, it pisses off the brake Gods.....

Bleed, take a ride, bleed, take a rubber mallet and tap the calipers and bleed again....I know it sucks, but the God's have peed on me, why not you?

Hope that helps...

Good Luck.

[Bleyseng]

Probably you didn't get all the air out because some is trapped in the P Valve. Read the Pelican article on bleeding the brakes and try again. I bleed em several times before a got a "Hard firm" petal. Just try some more, you are on the right track. Also recheck that venting clearance to make sure that is right on.
Geoff

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76 914 2.0L

[Jim Smolka]

Since you have converted to 5 lug, I have one item to note. Make sure that the bleader valves are on the top of the calipers. Don't ask how I know to check this.

[rich]

Glad to here the beast is running sooo good. I can still remember the day I lite the 1.7 with the car on the jack stands. (I'm grinning again just thinking about it) It seems like years ago now.... Oh ya... it was. Your soooo lucky to be so close. Enjoy,and let us less fortunate enthusists know how things turn out. We'll be checking.......

[SteveStromberg]

Are you using the tube and bottle method of bleeding? Steve

[Scott S]

Yep - the good old "have a relative push on the pedal" system. My bro has a great deal of experience doing this as well. He is also a car builder. We traded off "seat time" 4 or 5 times over the two hours we worked on the thing. We started on the bottom bleed screws, then did the tops, moving from the furthest away from the master cylinder to the closest. The fluid was completely flushed (it turned to blue from clear) and each bleader flowed smooth and bubble free. The pedal would be hard at the time of bleeding, then go soft shortly after you let it up. You could pump it up in one quick stab. I just double checked venting clearances and looked for any leaks. The only think I can find is a little wetness on the fabric hoses that attach the reservoir to the feed lines - and that is probably from not using a funnel on the reservoir (which is still full). I guess I have no other alternative but to replace the MC. The only thing I have not investigated would be the rear proportioning valve. I know it is as dry as a bone (no leaks) but I dont know what symptoms a bad valve would cause. Again, the rear bleaders flow very well.
Thanks you guys...
Scott S

[This message has been edited by Scott Schroeder (edited 04-22-2001).]

[chibone_914]

You can also bleed the brake master cylinder. Have someone in the car pump and hold the pedal while you crack open a hardline fitting. Its messy but it worked on mine. Let the person know in the car the pedal should only go down 2 to 3". Too much will possibly tear up the seals. (dragging along the inner walls of the master cylinder that are probably covered in gunk, unless its a fresh one)

Good Luck!!
John

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72'914

[Scott S]

I don't know if this matters, but I did pump the crap out of that MC to get any sort of pedal when we started the beelding process PRIOR to taking the car to the shop (after I did the front end 5 bolt swap). Can you tear up the internal seals this way? Hmmmmmm...
-S

[72_914]

Scott-

I am in the same situation as you. Just some background on my car, stock brakes, new 19mm, and DOT ss hoses. One day after I left work.. no brakes! I limped home with what little was left of the pedal (5miles at 12am). The next day me and my neighbor bled the brakes and checked the venting distance. Some air came out of the back none in the front. The pedal was firm but not as firm as before. We took it for a test drive and all seemed well. The next day.. no brakes again. I went over the brake system with a fine tooth comb, no leaks and the resevoir was still filled to the line. Next I changed the rear pads (the old ones were shot! oops) and bled the system again. Today I ran it around the block, much better!! Still spongy but firm. I will re-blead and check the venting tomorrow. These things are a pain in the a#%!! What tees me off more is that there was an autox today that I had to go and just sit and watch. Three 944's, one 911's, and one boxter I could have beat up on (not really but I should have been closse on that course). If you figure it out let me in our your tricks/secrets. Anyone want to explain how to bleed the p-valve again?

[SteveStromberg]

Try cracking the unions at the comp valve. Check the rear caliper adjustment. Steve