2.0 to 2.5

[countb]

I am looking to get a 914 in the near future to be a weekend autocrosser and occasional driver. I was hoping to get around 200 hp out of the engine and I know the only way to do that is to increase the displacement. So my question is how can I go from a 2.0 to a 2.5 liter engine? Where can I find a good big bore kit? I have been looking around for some good 914 performance websites but can not find any. Do I necessarily have to use a 2.0 or can I start with a 1.7? I don't have the money to convert to a six cylinder so I will have to use the four banger. If there is anything else I need to know about this kind of conversion please let me know. Thanks!!

Jon

[Bleyseng]

Try Jake Raby at http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/Home_Page.htm
He is building some awesome engines these days for instance, a 2.3 (78x96mm) that dynoed at 159 hp! And is streetable....
Geoff

------------------
76 914 2.0L

[oredith]

check out John Roger's write-up on his car on the "what's new" section on this web site (how to setup a race 914, or something like that).. it's a -B-I-G- bore 4.. and makes probably around the 200hp mark (2.8L, if i remember correctly?)..

the truth is, with a big bore, if you want to make that kind of power, you're going to spend almost as much as a -6 conversion, and the power band will be moved much higher up.

choose carefully, but chances are, if you hit the 200hp mark with a 4 banger, it won't be *much* cheaper than a -6 conversion.

[campbellcj]

Some of those monster /4's are certainly impressive! But to take Jeff's comment one step further, a ~300hp large displacement /6 conversion isn't that much more than a 200hp /6 conversion, or a 200hp big-4 (done right, like John Roger's for example). Remember, the 911 engine already has the dry sump oiling, the high compression, the more effective cooling fan, etc. And of course there's the sound

If it were me (and it might be, soon) I would build a "modest" type 4, perhaps a 2.2/2.3 if I were shooting to stay under $5K. Beyond that, my vote is on the /6.

[John Rogers]

For a street car with occasional racing a 2.4 is probably the best way to go. You still have a bunch of machine work to do on the block and heads but can get away with a remote oil cooler and maybe not a complete dry sump system. A very large part will be head work and that is where most of your power will come from. Use good name brand parts and don't cut corners and you'll be happy with the 4. I'd recommend checking shops where you live and see what they say. Good luck.

[Jake Raby]

If using the stock cooling system, we do not go past a 2.3....With the 911 system, we go up to a 2.7, but no more for a driver car..

The 2.3 is the absolute BEST engine we have ever used for a 914 application. It requires less oil cooling, and it works great with a stock transaxle.

The 2.6 is basically overkill in most applications, we prefer a better built, smaller displacement engine for longevity, expense and driveability.

The -6 conversions are not easy, and require alot of work, however when it is finished, it runs great, the added weight is a negative...

Jake Raby
www.aircooledtechnology.com

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

I know someone who was getting 200+ HP from a 2.05 liter 914 motor. Very little extra weight (light weight is one of his primary goals; the whole car comes in at something like 1500# wet!!) and gobs of power. It is a race-only motor, though. It runs on race gas, is dead below 5500 RPM and spins up to 7000 regularly, and lasts about 4 dozen hours if nothing goes wrong. He also has more $$ in his heads than I have in my whole car.

It makes for a fine race car, but a lousy street car.

So, what kinds of constraints were you willing to live with, again?

--DD

[countb]

Thanks to everyone for the posts!!

Dave_Darling, I was looking to build a car that would mainly be used for autocross and that could, on a very rare occasion, be driven on the street. So far I am leaning towards the 2.3 or 2.4 kit from www.aircooledtechnology.com . Which of these, or any other options, would be best for my application.

Thanks for any suggestions!!

Jon

[countb]

sorry, double post.

[This message has been edited by countb (edited 05-29-2001).]

[John Rogers]

I would go with the 2.3l kit as if it is any bigger you will need the 911 style cooling system which is a big expense, but you will get a muuuuch more powerful alternator along with the increase in air flow. Opt for the best heads you can afford, I.E. large valves, dual springs, port/polish or flow work, etc. Another trick we use is type one lifters, chrome moly push rods and 1.5:1 roller rockers to minimize valve train problems due to acceleration/decelaration of the valve gear. If you can afford it a dry sump system and large cooler will make the engine live much longer, but as Jake says, the bigger it is the shorter the life span. Finally go with his recomendation for compression since he build a lot of hi pro street motors. I have 10:1 but I run 101 race gas and my engine is pretty much full race. Good luck.

[Jake Raby]

The 2270 (2.3) IS THE MOST POPULAR ENGINE! We build more of these than all others combined, and see results that are astounding.

the 2270 is great for a driver car, as a small external oil cooler is all you will need to keep temps well within range, and the stock cooling system will efficiently keep the head temps in the norm..

The 2270 uses 5.4 type 1 rods, 96mm JE pistons, and Brand new head castings, with tons of port work...There are 2 versions to choose from, and alot of options, including Cryogenic Enhancement.

[campbellcj]

Originally posted by Jake Raby:
The 2270 (2.3) IS THE MOST POPULAR ENGINE! We build more of these than all others combined, and see results that are astounding.

Jake - we won't hold ya to it, but approximately what kind of dough is involved in building one of these kick-@$$ 2270's turnkey, from a good 2.0 core?

[vw@micron.net]

Here is my combo for my slow little old beetle. 78x103 2599cc.

Power Tuning Parts is doing all the machine work. I am assembling it.

1.8 914 case, bore to 103, decked, shuffle pinned, lifter bore bushings.

Power Tuning CNC under cylinder six stud plate system.

1.8 914 heads fully worked. 6 stud. 48x40. welded and ported intake ports. Welded and ported exhaust ports. 12mm spark plug moved over. Very nice heads and very expensive.

Eurorace 103mm cylinders and JE pistons. Most likely will use Copper head shims for dialing in compression and for a better head seal.

Power Tuning 39 gram cam follows.

Webcam 163/86B on 1.065 base circle and 108 lobe center.

Aircooled.net 78mm counterweighted stroker crank with Type 1 beetle rod journals.

Scat 5.4" T1 H beam rods. 22mm wrist pins for weight savings.

Aluminum pushrods, special German hardened aluminum retainers, etc. Valvetrain good to 8500 RPMs for hours. Gene Berg outer springs and wasserboxer inner springs.

Riechert welded, dowel pinned, and match ported shorty IDF manifolds.

BAS 21158 merged 1 3/4" OD stainless exhaust with single 3" Dynomax magnum straight through race muffler.

Schadek 4 gear dry sump pump, Gerd Weiser dry sump tank, AN fittings and stainless lines, Kymco fan/oil cooler, oil thermostat. Power Tuning CNC 914 2.0 style sump plate with oil temp sensor boss, PTP CNC oil cooler blockoff plate.

Power Tuning Parts 964 Carrera cooling system.

Power Tuning killer CNC carb linkage. The bomb.

CB 48 throttle bodies, Autronic SMC ECU, sequential injection, dual double ended high energy Subaru coils, Nipondenso ignition modules, and much, much more.

www.powertuningparts.de

Contact Oliver for access to killer German parts. Jake Raby is a very good source for info in the US. He has helped me with camshaft options. John Connolly at www.aircooled.net has lots of parts in his Database, and can get anything from FAT, Eurorace, etc. for you. John also builds custom engines.

The engine should put out around 180 ft pound of torque and 200 horsepower.

Steve Arndt