76 smoged 2.0 made into a clean 73 2.0

[captjm]

I have 1976 2.0 motor I would like to put into a 1973. I am wondering what problems will occur if I pull all of the smog pump and catalitic converter stuff off. How will it affect the injection system. The motor has not been run for about 6 years, and is out of the vehicle. I am thinking about pulling the heads to take a peak. The previous owner said the motor ran fine 6 years ago. Any thoughts??

[pbanders]

Well, if you do it right, it should still work fine. Of course, it will pollute more, specifically HC and CO. If everything is still working OK, why not keep it the way it is?

Brad Anders

[captjm]

I would be interested to know the difference in smog numbers between the two years. Somewhere I have the published HP differences...I think 15 HP to run the smog pump ??? HMMMM..

[pbanders]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, I'll try to dig them out. There is a reduction in power, but I thought is was less than 15 hp. At idle, 914's w/o cat converters have CO levels of about 1 to 3 percent. A first-generation single bed cat like the late 2.0L's have should reduce that to 0.2 percent or less.

Brad Anders

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

In stock form, the 74 US 2.0 put out 95 HP. The 75 US 2.0 put out 88 HP. It lost 7 HP to the smog pump and also to the lame roundy-roundy-round unequal-length exhaust.

--DD

------------------
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

The smogpump draws 3-5 HP. The mayor loos was the "stupid" exhaust setup.
Exhaust recirc costs power too but a good setup will work only on off throttle situations and also makes the engine run smother and a bit responsiver.

Grüsse

[ringmorph]

I don't see why everyone is so down on the late model exhaust. I would bet their is no noticeable horsepower difference between the two since they are both terrible designs. My bet is the power difference is the air pump and a leaner air fuel ratio setup for smog purposes.
By the way its being legislated currently in California to reinstate smog checks back to 1965 so I would just make sure you legal for 1973.

[Joe Bob]

ringmorph .....

You are talking about legislation that is being introduced by slimey politicians as a favor to others...IT HAS NO CHANCE OF EVER PASSING.....

There is case law that prohibits retroactive add on smog devices. As an air pollution case worker for over 15 years, I would like to think that I know what is going on....

IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN....in California, 2004 the 1974 manufactured vehicle will be exempt from smog inspection. Each and EVERY year after that, vehicles that are 30 years old will ALSO be exempt.

PLEASE stop posting comments that are not for the common good.

Michael Zois
Air Pollution Inspector
Registered Environmental Assesor
California Licensed Investigator

[Joe Bob]

Ohhh and let me add...the 75 76 exhaust goes forward, makes a 180 degree turn, then goes thru a cat pipe then out the 180X2 muffler.

It don't take a rocket scientist to figure out the flow robs horse power.....wait a minute....let's ADD air conditioning AND the stupid air pump that was added to the 2.0....!!!!!!!

I will buy a 73-74 2.0 and ....screw that....how about a 70 1.7.....kick yer butt any day, anywhere.

[ringmorph]

Hey Mike, did I personally offend you? I just mentioned something that I had read in some automotive magazines about the smog law. It was not a personal attack on your knowledge of smog related cases. As for flow in an exhuast system, all the flow in the world does not make good horsepower otherwise racers would just run straight pipes out of the heads. My point is that neither factory systems are tuned to produce any noticeable gains in horspower.

[ringmorph]

Also I believe you about retroactive smog devices but that is not what they are trying to do. As far as I know any modification of the stock smog equipment is currently illegal. The only thing that has changed is there is no inspection currently required for 73 and earlier cars. I don't see why they couldnt reinstate inspections for equipement that should already be their in the first place by law. As for those slimey people I have no idea who they are except that the legislation was in response to Californias failure to meet certain airquality criteria that was mandated some years back. Personally I think the idea is rediculous and that the cars that need to be yanked off the road are the cars made in the 1980's.

[This message has been edited by ringmorph (edited 07-22-2001).]

[Joe Bob]

Nah, no offense...y'all are falling for the current Republican bashing of the Democratic Gov....

Personally, I think BOTH political parties bite the big one....

There are other people besides Porsche owners...if a car can last 25 years on the road and pass the visible emissions standards (tail pipe smoke) and not fall apart...they should leave the owners ALONE.

The fact that the STATE smog nazis....(I is a COUNTY nazi BTW) require you to maintain/put inoperative smog equipment on a car that could pass the pipe test, burns my cookies.....

Are you aware that you have to have ALL the smog junk on your car BEFORE you can take the test...it DOES NOT matter what the pipe reading is OR whether the smog equipment actually WORKS .....DOES this make sense?

Not to me, personally I think the used car parts lobby has a hand in this.....

Just my $9.14 of opinion, BUT I could be wrong.........

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

A few things, ringomorph.

First, just ignore Mike Z. He's a crabby old man now who is upset because his "new" 914-6 really needs an interior and some carb rebuilding. (BTW, sweet-lookin' car, MTZ!) He's also afraid that the other folks who drive 911 Cabernets (cabriolet==convertible) like his will snub him because he went "backwards" and got a car that "isn't a real Porsche". We all know how much Mikey respects the opinion of all other 911 owners...

OK, OK--time to get serious here:
> I don't see why everyone is so down on the late model exhaust.
> I would bet their is no noticeable horsepower difference
> between the two since they are both terrible designs. My bet
> is the power difference is the air pump and a leaner air fuel
> ratio setup for smog purposes.

I'll take that bet. Dynos at 20 paces--DRAW, podner!!

Anyway, the late-style exhaust drops down from the heads and bends forward. The rear-most pipe picks up the front pipe immediately, so the exhaust from the forward cylinders travels less distance than the rear does. Then the exhaust makes an immediate 180-degree bend, and heads back toward the tail of the car. When it gets to the back, the exhaust on the left side has to cross aaaaaalllll the way over to the right side so it can go into the catalytic converter (or the "test pipe" on non-cat cars) and then it gets to go through two different mufflers.

The early exhaust is independant all the way back into the muffler. Each cylinder has its own pipe all the way back. I do not know what happens when they get into the muffler, how the merge is handled there--but it simply cannot be much worse than the late setup...

Actually, I would be interested to see how the late exhaust affects the power. I wouldn't be surprised if the difference is only 2 or 4, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see a 10 HP diff either. Perhaps when Jeff B does his "dyno day", we'll have a real answer.

--DD

------------------
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

AS the Cat parts are NLA in germany I was involved in a conversion to a Oberland Mangold setup. Basically the complete 76 California emission was removed. A set SSI where shortend and get a small HJS catalic converter with a cheap japan unheatetlambda sond. Exhaust was 914/2,0. The HJS unit regulates Lambda by bypassing air. Engine was riched up to max under all loads.

Had calculatet 98 HP on the crank ( Didnīt where messured before ) but problems with partial throttle until we used a lambda regulation for each bank.

Car passed Europen new car emmission and was tax lowered and allowed to drive under smog conditions. If we had placed the cats closer to the engine I maybe had passed the US regulations. We allreday made one prototype and Eisenmann was willing to start a small run.

Kit was to expensive and marked changed due to new rules for oldtimer. Also we didnīt had managed to convert the kit for non Recirc heads. If you bypassed the throotle body the D-Jetronic wounīt work correct.
Paul Wurm stoped his part of the project too.
He just developed his Mercedes kits and they didnīt sell to well.

Maybe there is a marked in the US ?

Grüsse

[bowlsby]

I'll add testing the later exhaust to the dyno list Dave...good idea.

Just an an aside, the dyno plan is still in motion. I have 2 hours of dyno time sponsorships so far and am looking for more sponsors. I'll give an update to the list soon. Lots more to get the test results for.