FRONT MAIN SEAL HELP!*!*!*!

[alex9s]

I just rebuilt a 74' 2.0 and have discovered a serious oil leak. Now i've determined for sure that its the front main seal. I've heard that its possible to replace the seal with the engine in the car. Is that true?? Wouldn't it be worth it to just drop the engine and do the seal easier and on the ground?? Also is there any common mistakes on the installation of the main seal?? Maybe not pushed the seal in far enough???? Has anyone had this problem before or had to fix it???? HELP HELP!!!! Thanks in advance for any advice or clues.

Alex Childs

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Yes, it should be possible to replace the seal with the engine in the car.

It will be an ugly job. To get to the seal, you'll have to take off the fan hub. That will require removing the fan. That will require removing the front engine tin. That will require removing the rear shift rod.

To remove the hub, you have to remove the hub nut. I loosened the nut before I took the fan off, and used a screwdriver down through the timing hole in the top of the fan shroud to hold the fan still.

After you get the fan off and out, then you have to pull the hub off the end of the crank. The easiest way is to put three pieces of very stout steel behind the hub, then use the three fan mounting bolts to press against them and press the hub off. Just go about 1/2 turn at a time on each to evenly pull it off.

Then you get to pull the seal out. Then clean up the whole area. Then tap the new one in gently and evenly with a hammer. Use a wood block or some other way to distribute the hammer's force across a wide area. But there's almost no room to swing a hammer.

It's a whole lot easier with the engine out...

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[Ed Atkinson]

It is very rare to have any problems with the front crank seal! If you have a lift you can replace the seal with the engine in the car. Remove alt belt, remove ft R/S sheet metal drop front of eng. down and remove the fan, remove the hub and you are at the seal! Good luck...It is not a fun job..Ed Atkinson

[alex9s]

Dave, what if the seal is leaking where the crank spins in the seal?? Is there anything like a sleeve to put on the end of the crankshaft to make it seal better? Should the seal sit flush with the case halves? Thanks for your reply.

Alex Childs

[SteveStromberg]

Did you replace the O-ring behind the hub?Steve

[roadtrp204]

For me, the engine would be out. For the most part it is realitively simple to yank it and would be completely worth it not to have to be upside down and backwards to try and fit in the "hole" to replace the seal. Plus you get to really clean and see if it truely was the seal or maybe the oil pump.

As for the seal install, it will bottom out and that is where it needs to be in order to be straight. The case halves are not straight on the exterior edge, its the machined interior edge that is true. A large socket that fits the outer diameter of the seal is the best nonprofessional approach at installing the seal.

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Chris
75 914 2.0L

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

There is no sleeve that I know of. Just the seal, and the O-ring on the back side of the fan hub.

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[roadtrp204]

BCA/Nation appears to make a redi-sleeve part# 99294. If anyone is unfamiliar with redi-sleeves, its a stainless steel sleeve that slides over the shaft the seal rides on to cover the groove and give it a new surface to ride on.

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Chris
75 914 2.0L

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

That's all well and good, but does it work? If I recall correctly, the nose of the crank there is conical, not straight. Do they have something that would help with that?

Or perhaps something that goes on the fan hub itself?

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

[roadtrp204]

It would go over the outer surface of the hub, the part where the seal rides. They work great, but they are a bit pricey. They come with red loctite and a tool to install it, its a semi-press fit. Its hard to notice when in place, they are almost razor thin. Felpro also has them, but their quality is not as high.

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Chris
75 914 2.0L

[alex9s]

Thanks guys i really appreciate your advice. Thats what i was talking about is an aftermarket sleeve to cover the groove, if any, on the end of the crankshaft. I don't remember seeing a groove there but you never know. I did put the impeller hub seal in. I'm dropping the engine this weekend and i'm doing it right. I'll drop it saturday and put it back in sunday and hope to be up and running again, DRY, late sunday. If there is one thing i've learned from working on the 914, among other things, is that if you can take more off to make the job easier- don't be stubborn just take it off.

Thanks again!!
Alex Childs

[JP Noonan]

FWIW:

I worked in a NAPA machine shop, the "sleeves" you talk about are mostly for domestic engines that were laking in lube to begin with.

In my own (yet limited) experience) the only reaso a type 4 front seal goes bad is

1:the use of a incorrectly installed oil pump (i.e. a High volume cast iron pump or the use of RTV to seal the pump housing) OR the use of crappy Brazilian seals. Brazilians seals fit soooooo bad I would not give them away.

2: The seal is installed with a "Polish pursuader" or it is hammered in. If care isn't taken the seal can cut itself during install. The block of wood is agood idea.

[3D914]

alex9s,

FWIW, when you get to the point where you need to pull off the fan hub, there is an easy way to do this without any special tools. You have to take off the large center bolt and thick washer first.

Now the trick is to work the fan hub off, as it gets pressed on when torqued at assy. All you need to do this is the three fan bolts which thread into the fan hub to hold the fan on.

Simply thread these partially into the hub again. I then place that large thick washer from the front of the hub behind one of the fan bolts, tighten down the fan bolt some to work off the hub. Back off that fan bolt a little then move to the next and repeat. It only took using two of the fan bolts to loosen my hub where I could pull it off by hand.

It takes a few minutes longer, but its great if you have a limitted amount of room, as you don't need any large tools - just a socket wrench.

Good luck,


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Gerard
74-914 2.0L
3D914
rodrigos6@juno.com

[jabez]

JP - just curious about the HD cast iron pump you mentioned. I am about to install one. What should I be looking for other than making sure the housing clears the cam bolts. How does the cast iron pump cause the seal to leak, too much oil pressure?

GS

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The leaks seem to be from either mediocre machining on the pumps, or from the different expansion rates of cast iron vs. aluminum. When aluminum gets hot, it expands more than cast iron does. This can cause leaks.

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling