v8 acceptance

[rich]

How many v8 914's attend club functions?
In general, how accepted is this conversion in porsche circles? I really like my 914, however,I have never been more disillusioned with a cars performance. How about some feedback. Thanks

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Depends on the Porsche Circles. Some places are more accepting than others. Heck, I don't think anyone would call it NARP if you managed to wedge a 928 engine in it. (It's been done, but required major structural mods.)

In local (PCA Zone 7) events, you'd be running autocrosses for NO points; your results would not officially count. ("Must have Porsche engine and body.")

However, check the photos and results from the early Renegade Festivals on the (no-longer-Renegade) 914 Club's homepage, www.dgi.net/914 . A couple of 914/V8s showed and seem to have been appreciated.

I personally don't care for V8s. I feel that is a drastic change to the character of the car, and not necessarily a good one either. But some folks just don't like a car unless it has gobs of torque.

My own choice would be a 911-based Six, or maybe a hi-po Big Four. The Four won't get you the 275+ ft-lbs of torque of the V8, but 160 honest HP will certainly launch the car adequately.

Final word: Straight-line acceleration is not something the 914 was designed for. You can get it to do that, but it was really made for the corners. If you're disappointed in how the car corners, something is probably wrong with the suspension and should be fixed.

Your car, your call.

--DD

[rich]

Thanks Dave, I drove a 914 2.0 built by Brad Mayeur. the car was fast and cornered great.
My 1.7 is an other story. My past motor sport interest involved some serious C.U IN.of raw power and torque.I think my 914 could corner great,If it ever had enough torque to try one. The cost to assemble the big 4 is comparable to a well exicuted econo swap 8v. The butchery is very little more than you would do for an oil cooler.It's been my observation over the past 3 years that on a resale, the value is equal.I don't think stock has much bearing. My biggest dread is spending a bunch of money on a car I really like to look at, only to have to look at it sit in my yard because I can't stand to drive it! (boring) Thats what I did last summer. When you talk about a 6 conversion the swap that is comparable in Hp and torq to a v8 the price goes to 10,000.00 Tell me i'm wrong. Am I being to practical? That why i'm wondering about 914 circle acceptance. I would love to drive the car this summer and maybe even go some place. PS. I measured the car for a 928 motor. If I had a rusty and repaired car it would be in. I can't get my self to cut this one up. If I used the 928 motor could I run for points? Your imput positive or negitive is welcome.

[Jim Boemler]

Glad you brought this topic up! I'm getting embroiled in a V8 conversion on my first 914 right now. Bought the car long-distance, and got stuck with a rust-bucket. Pretty fiberglass body, and decent Chevy 350 already installed.

I've already talked to Wayne about seeing if there's any interest in V8's here, so I'll probably be bothering the folks with lots of questions.

But I've gotta tell you, the more I dig into this thing the more I'm convinced that a V8 conversion isn't nearly as easy as it's cracked up to be. The 914 is a wonderfully designed machine, but it's a balanced design. It's not any stronger than it needs to be, and that means a V8 stresses things mightily. Here's just a short list of weak spots and ramifications:

1. The trailing arms and the consoles aren't up to the torque of plain acceleration. A few good launches and they're gonna be history.

2. The 901 transmission won't handle the torque either. The 915 is better, but it's the 930 that has the strength and the ratios for a V8. Bring bucks, because it's not a friendly conversion. In the process you'll want to add a limited-slip -- another grand or so.

3. Inner and outer CV joint likewise, gotta be replaced. The prior owner of mine went through 2 bus axles before switching to what he described as "racing" joints (most probably really 914-6 joints). Problem is the bigger CVs (from 928 or 930) need bigger wheel bearings, and those won't fit into the trailing arms! Welcome to massively reworking the arms (or even building new ones from scratch -- I know two people who've done it that way).

4. Of course if you're gonna go fast (presumably not just in a straight line), you'll want MUCH bigger wheels and tires. That means body work, usually beyond the common flares. It also means much higher torsional loads on the chassis, which leads to more internal bracing.

5. Then there's cooling. Big radiator up front needs air, lots of it, in and out. Usually you cut the front for inlet, and the fenders for outlet. But guess what, that leaves the rear of the torsion bars weakened, and the front virtually unsupported! Welcome to tubing welded up in the front trunk.

6. And balance. The V8 adds about 300 pounds total, most of it in the rear, just where a powerful car doesn't want it. At minimum you'll want to relocate the battery, and I'm planning to move fuel forward as well. Anything else you add, try to do it up front.

It gets intimidating after a while! I'm planning to do it anyway, even though it's gonna take me two whole 914s to do it. I think it's gonna end up as a dynamite autocross car, and I don't much care if people think it's NARP -- they can tell it to my tailpipes. But it's not, IMHO, equivalent to installing an oil cooler -- it's closer to massive refurbishment, and deserves a lot of thought and planning.

Hope I haven't scared you away, and I hope others with more experience have some good things to say about V8 conversions. I'm all ears, and hungry for input.

jim

[rich]

jim, As I understand, most porsche guy's view the best car idea Porsche ever had as a NARP anyway! So much for loyalty to your mark.If porche would have received recieved the support and interest we all have I don't think we'd have a debate forum on to "V8 or not to V8". I strongly feel that Porsche would have continued to develope the car instead of or maybe parallel to the water cooled successers. Tell me i'm wrong, the term NARP did not not evolve from the media reaction to some guy swapping in american HP. That poke in the eye has been around for as long as the car has been labeled a PO-VO. I think my direction is headed where Porsche should have gone. And when i'm done I guess I won't be anymore fo an out cast than I am now. WFO and AMF Thanks "911's drag diaper!

[Wayne 962]

Well, I'm not too familiar with all the acronyms here, but I do know that my 914 with a 1974 2.7S motor in it is much faster than my 911SC, or my 356, or my 944! It literally throws your head back against the seat when you let the throttle fly...

I'm not a big fan of chevy conversions - they are hard to do, and even harde to resell. You have to make a lot of things fit that weren't really intended to fit. Heck, getting the 914-6 conversion project off right is hard enough, and all those parts are supposed to fit...

-Wayne

[JP Noonan]

Not entirely sure on the specifics but....
Didn't Chevy make a rear engine aircooled car? The "Nader Hater" Corvair. I'm pretty sure it is an aircooled, wet sump, six barrel, pancake motor. Soooo you ask what does this have to do with the price of beach houses in Iowa? Let me explain.

If you find a Corvair motor, places like NAPA have rebuild kits. Also the people behind the counter actually know that you don't need a new lower radiator hose, and the machinist probably has some form of reference material on the motor as well.

The wet sump means that there is no oil tank like on a 914/6.

People have been putting these engines in bugs and buses for awhile (well, at least they used to). I've seen kits (back in the day magazine ads) that included trans adaptors, a reverse camshaft (I guess the motor turns the wrong way), and reverse starter.

I know it's just a guess, I don't know if the motor even fits.

About the radiator hose... It was one of our favorite tricks to play on the new guy. Call from a different extension and ask for "a lower radiator hose for a 74 VW Bettle" watch the guy go through the computer and books and come up with "...well, sir, I can find belts for that application but..." we would say "Hell, I just bought the upper hose from you guys last week, what kind of moron are you?" Ummmm, well, business gets kinda slow in the winter, and we get kinda bored.

[Jim Boemler]

You're pretty perverse, JP! :-)

Yeah, there was a Corvair. I even owned one back in the late 60's, and for an American motor is was pretty slick. Just like you'd expect if a Porsche motor was copied by an American car maker 35 years ago. Besides being scarce today, the most powerful examples made 180 horsepower, turbocharged.

While it's nice to keep the thing air-cooled and a couple of hundred pounds lighter, fully doubling the horsepower using a relatively common motor that's far cheaper seems a better bet to me.

Besides, I can still ask for a radiator hose for a 914, and even show the parts guy where it goes! You're not the only perverse one here...

jim