Six Conversion maybe not

wndsnd · 05-05-2012, 04:26 AM

:eek
A well know west coast engine builder is offering a Type 4 2600 cc longblock with a 78/103 mm crank and my choice of 44 or 48 IDF. Price under 5G. making 200 hp.

This obviouly is performed as claimed would be a great alternative the the 6 conversion I have planned, and be less expensive and easier to execute. I am seriously considering this option and was hoping the forum gurus could play devil's advocate for me on this decisision. I am concerned about warranty, and what is in there, even though it is from a reputable builder.

Thanks all...

Cairo94507 · Cairo94507's Garage

That's a lot of HP out of a 4. I guess it depends on what you want a 4 that has been built to its maximum potential or a stock six that just runs. Personally, if I was building a non-six car I would do a six conversion with a stock motor.

914986 · 05-05-2012, 05:45 AM

200hp for less than 5k out of a type 4? A dyno proven 200 hp type 4 from a proven engine builder is going to cost you no less than twice that. If it's too good to be true, it may be.

Racer Chris · Racer Chris's Garage

That price is totally unrealistic.
Figure more like $10K for a well built long block like that, plus add-ons like exhaust, external oil cooler, bigger brakes, etc.

fetus · fetus's Garage

These motors typically never last longer than 20k miles. Only Raby motors have a track record of lasting longer than 100k miles. A six will last up to 200k miles.

wndsnd · 05-05-2012, 07:24 AM

This is what I was told. $4200 for the long block, $720 for the Webber Kit, and every thing else, I transfer from my 1.7. If I want to send that back for a core, they will credit me what they think it is worth, however, it isn't necessary. They say it will run 8:5 compression on our today's gas.

wndsnd · 07:29 AM

Picture deleted to protect the innocent.....

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

That's very inexpensive for a 200 HP Type IV. You have to wonder what corners they would have to cut to offer it at that price.

To support 200 HP, a good set of heads would probably need more than $1K worth of work--possibly much more! And a bad set of heads... Let's just say that some of the best Type IV cylinder head guys far prefer not to work with old heads any more, because they've been heat cycled within an inch of their lives and many wind up needing a ton and a half of work to make them a useful starting point for modification.

BTW, the 1.7 exhaust would be a significant bottleneck and would likely keep you from getting near 200 HP. A proper header setup will cost you at least $500 (and that's for the really cheap ones!) and if you want to help the engine make its maximum power, you talk to Racer Chris above and spend double that or more.

--DD

Cohibra45 · 05-07-2012, 05:55 AM

I guess the main question is do you want the 200hp motor to last. Throwing away 5k seems like a waste, but it's your money. If it were me, I'd go with Jake and get something that will run a good long time........wait, I did!!!

He builds a great 2270 and 2316 for your 914. All save weight and give long service and tq/hp.

BTW, who is this well known engine builder?? You still haven't enlightened us. If he is really well known, he won't mind spreading his name here.

Fly Mach .86 · 05-07-2012, 07:19 AM

Two saying come to mind here. "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is". And of course, "you get what you pay for". Good luck.
Cheers, Elliot

wndsnd · 05-07-2012, 08:05 AM

I have not committed to this purchase. The builder is Scatt VW. Does anyone have any experience with them? I would love a Raby engine, but the long lead time and high prices discourage me. I was originally on a plan of 6 conversion and maybe I will get back to that. This is whay I through it out to the Forum. I need the advice!

r_towle · 05-07-2012, 08:06 AM

Is there a warantee?

Jared at Pelican Parts · 05-07-2012, 08:22 AM

Find another builder. That engine is going to have a lifespan of HOURS instead of miles.

I can build you a grenade for $5K too.

Jared at Pelican Parts · 05-07-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wndsnd

The builder is Scatt VW. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Do some research on where the parts are made.

Randal. · 05-07-2012, 08:28 AM

Is it SCATVW?

To be on the safe side you should first ask to see the engine and dyno sheet that shows they can make 200HP with 8.5 compresssion.

Also do get the information about warranty.

Also ask for references of people that are running this engine configuration.

Also a detailed parts list (case/crank/rods/pistons/fastners/lifters/cylinders/head configuration and parts, etc. etc.) so you can post it here and get feedback on whether the engine will last.

BTW if there isn't a warranty or you can't talk to specific references and confirm what they say then dealing with these people will not be a good experience.

And do listen to the people posting here, many have been through engine builds and know what can be done, guys like Racer Chris.... they know what they are doing and have proven track records.

JmuRiz · JmuRiz's Garage

Anything with iron 103mm cyls is too scary for me. Heard of too many local ones blowing up, even when professionally built.

r_towle · 05-07-2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JmuRiz

Anything with iron 103mm cyls is too scary for me. Heard of too many local ones blowing up, even when professionally built.

I would not be afraid of the cylinders if the owner is OK to re-ring the motor every 5k...(normal for a race motor)
For the large cylinders and large stroke, I would be more afraid of the crank and rods....specs, bolts etc.

Rich

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randal.

And do listen to the people posting here, many ... know what they are doing and have proven track records.

Also note that many people posting here do not have direct experience building high-po Type IV motors, and are repeating what they have heard and read elsewhere.

I am one of those people. I have done research into big Type IV motors, but I have not built any!

--DD

Randal. · 05-07-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

Also note that many people posting here do not have direct experience building high-po Type IV motors, and are repeating what they have heard and read elsewhere.

I am one of those people. I have done research into big Type IV motors, but I have not built any!

--DD

Hey Dave you took my quote out of context?

"And do listen to the people posting here, many have been through engine builds and know what can be done, guys like Racer Chris.... they know what they are doing and have proven track records."

The best thing the original poster could do would be to talk to Chris Foley, who is always available and a great information source on how to do things right. I also think he is on the right coast.

Also, having been associated with and currently running, as hard as she will go, a big type IV, trying to give the guy a heads up on what to check before driving off the pier.

wndsnd · 05-07-2012, 11:36 AM

Well this thread got interesting fast enough! I will take the advice and talk to Chris Foley and others on the east coast as I would prefer to deal locally. Right now I have got the Hard side, right side, rust eradicated, and am moving to the much easier left. That four keeps reminding me that it is in the corner of the shop because I keep stubbing my shin on the muffler. I am trying to sort out which way I am going to go because I am having to make fuel pump and EFI decisions. I think the brain is toast or the relay board is toast as I was having trouble getting the new pump to run unless jumped. Maybe I will just try the 80 hp, Being a past 356 and 911 guy, I have no prejudices on cylinder numbers. They both deliver joy... I just can't wait to hear something spinning behind me!

NARP? BS! (not the club...)