Why 5 lugs instead of 4???

[914fanatic]

Hey folks I'd like to start a running conversation on why it is better to convert to 5 lugs. Is there really a good reason or is this just kind of a just 'cause modification. I'm in the planning stages of my project 914 and really want to get my direction down before setting out. If everyone could clear this up for me I'd appreciate it. I'd also really like to know stuff like extra wieght added by going to the 911 stuff. thanks in advance~MARK

[michael]

The four lugged car (914s and VWs) wheel has not been made for a number of years. As such, the aftermarket wheel manufacturers have not been making new wider four lug wheels to match up with the newer low profile tires. Market demand is low....

As Porsche still uses the five lug pattern on the new cars, the aftermarket manufactures continue to offer new wheels in varied sizes.

[914fanatic]

Thanks for your reply michael! Is this the ONLY reason?? I'd have to believe there is some kind of unsprung weight issue or some kind of other reason to spend the money to go to five lugs! how about vented rotors? is their anybody that can give me some help on making the decision. Thats alot of money to spend on a wheels decision. I can get a set of old wheels cut and welded back together to make 7" wide rims for $200 bucks for a whole set. This hardly justifys the $400-500 dollar 5 lug swap plus the cost of the new wheels. Help??!!!!

[Rich Hilgersom]

Yes, vented rotors are a big factor, as well as larger calipers. 5 bolt rears with vented rotors are a bit harder and much more than $500 if you want to keep your Ebrake. Thats more in the ballpark of $2,000 for just a rear Velios setup. The 911 drum pads are about $75 alone..and thats rebuilt not new.

Although you can get 4 lug cut and widened by Stockton Wheel or some other place you can not get them in 16". Since you are stuck with 15" rims you must also raise the car a bit to use lower profile tires. Unless you like that scrape the ground sort of thing.

Bottom line.. if you are under 140 HP stick with the stock setups. If you are over 140 HP or are feeling brake fade in autocrossing then do the conversion. Remember this is not a conversion that will damage your paint or require welding something while it is on the car. So save your money until you know you need the conversion.

[michael]

I have 180+hp and have not felt the need to modify my REAR brakes, I like E-Brakes and have not yet needed vented rotors back in the rear.

Most effective braking is in the front anyway. I removed the proportioning valve due to the 3.0 and the engine mounts. I also modified my front brakes with an early 911 set up and vented rotors. The rears were simply redrilled hubs and 914/6 rotors.

Be careful removing the proportioning valve. If the rear brakes are any where near the performance of the fronts, you may lock the rears up prior to the fronts and slide into trouble.

Front lock first semi-OK, rear lock first BAD!!!

if youre worried about your ebrake..JC whitney sells a hydrallic brake line lock, the way it works is you push on the pedal, push the knob on top of the lock, and let off the pedal, it holds the pressure in the lines, keeping the brakes on even when your foot isnt on the pedal, to release all you do is push on the pedal again..its need little item and safety tool for anyone worried about their ebrake failing..

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The problem with line locks is that they tend to let go. If they are set when the system is hot (i.e., after you've been using the brakes pretty well), the pressure drops when the system cools off. No more e-brake, oops! Ditto if the pressure in the system leaks out for *any* reason.

Also, if one of the brake lines fails or the system otherwise loses pressure, a line lock cannot help you. With the stock e-brake, you can at least pull on the handle and have *some* small effect.

In some states with vehicle inspections, the line locks are not legal for those very reasons.

The most popular reasons I've heard to go to five-lug wheels are a combination of the brakes *and* the looks and wide selection of wheels available. For some people, the ability to use lug nuts and studs rather than wheel bolts is also a factor.

--DD

[This message has been edited by Dave_Darling (edited 05-19-99).]

[John Rogers]

We have a 1974 2 liter we autocross and drive everyday and it has the 4 bolt wheels. I put the BMW brakes on the front, removed the prop valve and it stops great. I found a set of 4 EMPI wheels with A008 tires, like new, for $300 and they have lasted our daughter for a full season of autocrossing. So far I can not begin to justify all the cost to convert to 911 suspension on out 914. If it had a 250 to 300 hp motor, yea I probably would, but then it would be a much more dedicated race car with limited street use.

[rich]

The reason I did it was purely to change wheels. I also added 125mm wheel spacers,flares and 916 front and rear glass bumpers. I simply liked the 916 look. But There are companies like HRE that will fix you up with any offset and bolt pattern you want on a variety of wheel styles. I had a set made for my BMW 2002. 15x8's and 16x10's (another looks decision)So that goes to show, you can get any size for any car, If your willing to pay the price BTW around 600.00 a wheel retail plus rubber (I'll be going to my shrink now.) There's no reason to change bolt patterns other than the option of the 911 fuch or other wheel. BTW I'm working on a bolt on adaptor for a better caliper. My goal is to avoid the machine shop hassle. I'll keep you posted.

[AHE 914]

Although I don't know their address, an American Co. called Revolution Wheels maks a 7 inch wide wheel in both 15&16 inches in a four bolt pattern. These wheels fit without body modification. They are also available in a super light weight for extra $. I believe they sell between $600-800. Revolution sells a lot of wheels to SCCA types.

[J P Stein]

On the subject of rear vented rotors, Troutman sells a set up that converts to the five lug(using 914/6 rotor) and uses the the orig. caliper. They also have a mod that puts a spacer in the caliper which allows the use of a vented 911 rotor. The whole setup costs around $450.

In my opinion,deleting the proportioning valve is not a good idea. When I did my motor swap, I put in an after market adjustable valve. As I recall, It is made by Wildwood, but sold under several different brand names. Had to come up with a 8 inch line to clear the motor mount and a "T" fitting to replace the banjo fitting.

I also fitted "S" calipers at front(on 911 struts). They weigh about half as much as the steel(iron?) calipers.