Hi, here I am after a long long "time off finding oil leaks on my 964"
Now Martin made all metal support and the set looks nice and clean, perhaps a bit over engineered but I prefer to be on the safe side.

As I mentioned early on the doc I started with a Porsche 911 bracket!!!!! Do not loose time on that way, The central motor of the 914-6 call on different approaches. I follow the advice of Michael at Mittelmotor in Germany, with a few changes, look at the photos.

Francisco

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350909748.jpg

I have to choose a different compressor due to availability. The Seyco PM8 is small, light, and do have the correct size for the use I planned. Also the compressor have "2 ears" on the lower part and one on the top, making the fixation easier and light.

The compressor bracket have a hole for the spark plug eventual service. Here also, we choose a different approach than Michael. Michael used a L shape bracket. After a lot of discussion we decided to use a plate to play safe on charge distribution.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350909873.jpg

Here you can see how we modified the front motor mount. We reinforced the motor mount, but was forced to reduce it's size, in order to be able to install the double pulley and the belt.

We have also made a few tries in order to see if we had enough space to change a belt with the engine installed, on a hot day roadside!!!!!
We feel the front motor support is correct and represent a good compromise on a car that I use only to enjoy with my beloved wife. (no track or solo racing).

The bracket on the chain cover have a prevision (hole on top) for a tensioner, but also we made a preview for a small tensioner pulley "just in case". A 48 inches belt is a bit long. It maybe not needed but who knows!!!!



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350910182.jpg

We made some modifications also on the cam tower studs. Longer studs will aloud us to use double nuts. Playing the safe side on the magnesium cam tower.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350910534.jpg

Here you can see, the whole picture. The main tensioner, is a second hand 944 alternator tensioner. The 951 (944 Turbo) uses two different size of tensioner, one short for the power steering pump and one longer for the air conditioner compressor. You can use one or the other. Easy to find and cheap.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350910575.jpg

You can see here, we need to eliminate one of the heater hoses. We close the air outlet, using a delete part from an early 911 engine.

Now, next week end we will put the engine on the car, to see if our calculations where correct and if everything fits properly. Keep all of you posted.

Francisco

Difficult to wait till the week end

So here are a bit more info on my AC installation.

We fit an extra pulley in order to keep the belt as tight as possible. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1351019427.jpg

The "end bracket" top view
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1351019480.jpg

I hope we will find some time before the week end to put the engine back and see if everything fit properly.

Francisco

914-6 a/c
 

During preparation, we made careful measurements, to be sure the compressor will not interfere with the firewall, have the needed space to remove the oil filter when oil is changed, and the work will look as clean as possible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1351238637.jpg

With the engine back on the car, we reached two of the targets.
1- we have space between the compressor and the firewall.
2- we have space to change the oil filter.
3- we even used a short belt than the Mittelmotor guys, and support it better.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1351240615.jpg

My only reserve is the compressor bracket, is too invasive. Looks horrible. Once the system will be operative, we will review the bracket design, probably we will move to a L shape like the guys of Mittelmotor did.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1351239347.jpg

Now the rest of the operation, will be carried as per the 914-4 AIR CONDITIONER INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS, a technical manual produced by Volkswagen Products Corp July 1971 Forth Worth Texas. In order to have a "factory look" as close as possible.

Will keep all of you posted.

Francisco
:D:D

Wow - Nice work. Looking forward to see if this works long-term and what you end up doing to clean-up the compressor bracket as it does look a little to bulky. Nice work though.

6 ac
 

Thanks so much for sharing this project. I look forward as others have stated to know how reliable the system ends up for you. The Mittlemotor approach and execution is top notch. Good luck the rest of the way...you're doing some great work.

Thanks for the comments on the work done.
I fully agree with the comments on the compressor bracket. Personally I am not comfortable with the shape and size of the bracket. Martin, my AC guru, said the actual design will be safer for the magnesium case.
The only way to know, is to finish the project and take the car on the road. It will be done ASAP. I want to take the car with me to the south of France and north of Italy, next spring.
Keep all of you posted.

I wish you luck, but I will bet that you will be replacing the timing chain box on that side of the motor due to cracks. I ran the serpentine belt with less tension, and the timing chain box cracked. You have to have more tension for the v-belt.

AC Bracket
 

I had an old 75 911 with the chain box mounted compressor, and also believe that relieving stress on this area is a good idea. Perhaps extending the engine mount ear on the driver's side up to the side of the cooling fan housing may allow another mounting point for the adjustable strut to the compressor. It could also free up the area if you choose to run the oil fed tensioners, as the current design seems to preclude this.

As I get older, I would love to have AC on my conversion car, so I really enjoy this thread and wait to hear any progress and real world experience.

I'm not sure the fan housing is any more solid for these purposes than the timing chain box.

Is there a reasonable way to extend the load path down to the motor mount? It doesn't look like there is any good way to attach the bracket to the crankcase itself. Perhaps you would have a long arm that goes downward to pick up a couple of studs near the bottom of the engine, but long skinny arms don't tend to be that strong either.

Hmm....

Regardless, it's a cool setup--one that I wasn't sure could fit until someone actually did it!

--DD

I think using the two 8mm studs that attach the motor mount would probably be the strongest ones that you could use, though it would take a U-channel or angled arm to give some strength for such a long arm. It definitely is a challenging installation, but with enough folks working on it, a reasonable solution should be possible. No one Debian ever goes from a prototype to a finished product without some tweaks!

Why not electrical compressors?
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/electric-car-ac-compressor.html

total watts, and voltage of aftermarket units,
less cost and weight to simply bolt on a belt driven unit

True.

Just go with a 911 SC mount and toss on a 507

I'm not sure the SC mount would clear the firewall, even with a 507.

--DD

The benefit of the SC factory mount was it moved the load off the cam chain cover studs.

I don't sense the firewall to be clearance issue unless you are using a factory engine console, 911-115-014-03, and it appears in the thread pictures that is not the case. The SC mount's primary load is placed on the 'baseplate' bracket, 911-126-101-01. The base plate is supported by the triangular fastening angle 930-126-116-00 on the head, however most load is transferred through the diagonal strut, 930-126-115-00, and then to the engine console. The short strut, 911-126-124-01, does very little and can be eliminated (we have done this often).

Most 507's have 2 pulley grooves and the SC application usually uses the inner; so here in this application you might or might not use the outer groove for 'clearance'. Post 10-23-2012, 12:12 PM above, might suggest you could use the inner groove based on the clearance with what is pictured.

The following are installation pictures using the aftermarket Kuehl SC bracket system on a 73 911T with webbers:

Diagonal strut attached to engine console
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353331904.jpg

Triangular Fastening Angle
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353332060.jpg

Base Plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353332016.jpg

Proprietary Kuehl Slider Plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353332294.jpg

Top Down View 507 on its Proprietary Kuehl Adapter Plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353332353.jpg

Side View 507 on its Proprietary Kuehl Adapter Plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353332417.jpg


As an alternative, the 505 series is 6.3 mm shorter than the 507.

The SC bracket you show places the compressor further inboard and higher up than the one Turboman shows us. The 914 firewall leans back at the top, except right at the cooling fan. The top of the fan housing would interfere with the firewall without that bend forward in the center of the wall. So placing the compressor pulley where the 911 has it will likely result in interference.

Even moving the compressor back so that the front pulley groove is used may not give enough room.

That is why the compressor is further outboard and lower, because of how the 914 firewall is shaped.

(Still love the Kuehl Air setup in the wife's SC, BTW!)

I wonder if the same mounting points used by the SC bracket could be used on brackets that move the compressor to the location shown in Turboman's post?

--DD

914-6 a/c
 

Some extra photos to show how our work advance. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353402829.jpg
Still not happy with the bracket, but decided to test the system for about 6 months on the road before any modification.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353402866.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353402888.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353402903.jpg

Dave,
I guess you are suggesting the white rectangle in the picture below
is the probable landing zone if the SC bracket system was used? If
so I can understand the concern.

Maybe 'somebody' with an SC and a 507 setup could transfer over
some measurements from their SC, using some common datum point shared
by this motor and the SC; distance to front of the 507 clutch and distance to the top of the 507 clutch's outer clutch plate, over to Francisco. It is so much easier to do the design 'once and right the first time' while the motor is out.

Otherwise, from what I can see on the rest of the system:
A) Maybe some grommet sleeves on the AC hose lines running through the rockers.
B) Stock 914 evaporator/blower panel should work just fine for the size of the cockpit.
C) Condenser? All I remember from my 914 days was I had to drive 90 mph when I was passing through Georgia to get things to work. The State Trooper who blew past me doing well of 120 mph completely understood (he was laughing and saluted when he passed). We don't have a big following in the 914 market so we have not developed a better condenser arrangement yet.
But if I was to explore it, maybe a ram air system to help the internal blower cage, and a 40mm+ thick serpentine coil would boost efficiency 20% or more.
I'd stay away from PF' coils if the plan was to lay them flat; you need to have those stranding vertical, whereas a serpentine can be arranged standing or laying down.
D) System needs a binary pressure switch (a low high switch); forget about a trinary; just have the condenser fan engage when ever the comp clutch kicks in.




http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353411043.jpg

The white box is exactly what I'm thinking about.

I guess that "somebody" should take those measurements. It probably won't happen any time this week, though, as he has a lot on his plate. :)

--DD