Hole In Engine Case :(:(:(

[cary]

Has anyone seen this happen before ? Any idea what causes it ?

Your eyes aren't playing games on you. You see distributor drive gear teeth.

Car still runs great. Smooth as silk. And great power.

[URY914]

Try some JB Weld.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

JB Weld ain't gonna cut it, not with that hole through the crankcase... Try a new case!!

If you haven't already, ask on the Type 4um on http://www.shoptalkforums.com . Some of the folks there have seen the inside of a lot of Type IV motors.

--DD

[cary]

Thanks, Dave. I posted the question on the Type4um.

Where is the best place to look for a new case ?

[pbanders]

If this is a 2.0L, some guy is selling a case on Ebay right now.

[URY914]

The JB Weld was a JOKE, Dave!

[cary]

The other weird thing. That you would think if the distributor picked up something and tried to spin it around. The teeth would be banged up, nothing.

I'll drain the oil and inspect to contents. Then I cut the filter open. To see what I see.

I had a couple missed shifts. Neutral………. A couple times……….

Evidently I knocked something loose. A washer or a nut ??????????????? But I wonder where from ?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

The JB Weld was a JOKE, Dave!

Uhhh, I knew that, right??? Riiiight???

(Note to self: Find which box the "sense of humor" is packed in!!! Hmmm, probably right next to "clue" and "memory". In which case, I'll never find it!!)

--DD

[Ron Meier]

Never under estimate the power of JB Weld and fiberglass cloth.

A couple of cans of carb cleaner, some 20 lb cloth, JB weld and a bottle of Jim Beam White Label made an "emergency" track repair that still holds after 12 years. Cam gear lock bolt backed out and puched hole in timing gear cover (strange things happen on race cars).

No, you don't mix the whiskey with the JB.

The way the hole is formed, it looks as if it was "punched" from the inside. Excessive side movement of the distributor gear (doubtful)? A flaw in the casting? Vibration over 30 years (the bolt hole looks like the motor mount attachement point)? Only the aluminum gods know.

I would try the JB weld with cloth. Clean the out side thoroughly with the carb cleaner (no oil on surface). Impregnate the cloth with JB( cloth should be cut to cover hole and adjacent cracks). Spread a layer of JB around the area, larger than the cloth(DO NOT TRY TO FILL THE HOLE). Lay the impregnated cloth in place. Cover with a layer of JB weld. Open the Jim Beam and drink it. By the time you wake up, the epoxy will have set thoroughly.

What have you got to lose? Just might save a case replacement.

No, I'm not joking; just a little strange though. If it works (as it did on the race car), it'll make a hell of a Tech article.

And if you want a case, I may have one or two.

[cary]

Well I've had quite a few ideas what caused it.

1. 1st. was the thought that a nut and washer came off the back of the oil pump. They then got sucked up and became jammed against the drive gear. Which makes since, but the gear ( looking from the hole, in ) shows no damage.

2. 2nd. A tooth broke off the cam gear and did the same jamming thing. But no visible damage.

3. Both Roland and Steve Weiner think long term harmonic vibration. Which is what I'm beginning think, too. All the records I have say. The case was line-bored. The crank was ground, balanced and polished. 30k miles ago. So ????

4. But Roland suggested another possibility. The intermediate ring/shim was left out from behind the distributor gear on the crankshaft. Which would allow the drive gear to wear against the case.

Looking at : http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/parts/engine/crankshaft_large.htm
Part #4 looks to big to forget. Is there another shim in there too ?
Never been there before...........but looks like I'm going to be.

Well I'm going to try and pull the distributor drive and oil pump tomorrow. But I expect to find nothing. I'll keep you posted.

[cary]

After re-reading Roland's e-mail. He wasn't talking about the ring on the shaft. He was talking about the packing washer under the distributor drive shaft. The one the Haynes manual talks about.
Now the question. Was it ever there ? I pulled the distributor drive shaft. BINGO . No washer. And look what I found.

Is it supposed to have that step in it ?

[cary]

Jake and Roland agreed. The lack of the packing washer ate a hole in the side of the case over time.
Here's the post on the Type4um.
http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/003284.html

Thanks for all the help.

[paulhagedorn]

which side of the case has the threads for the bolt that hold the windage tray?

If it is not the passenger side, I can give you my passenger side engine case if I still have it.

I had to chane to my 1.7 case with 2.0 internals and externals because the PO somehow broke the case where that specific bolt, for the windage tray, goes in and caused it to leak oil quite a bit.

[cary]

See how much I know. What is the windage tray ???

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

It's a tray that goes into the engine, above the sump. The bolt that holds the oil pickup tube (and the middle sump plate) also holds it, but I belive that it is also held in by the rubber seal around its edge.

Overtightening the sump bolt will cause the through-bolt that the sump bolt hangs off of to bend, and can easily break the part of the case that it threads into.

I'm not sure mixing-and-matching case halves is a good idea. You want everything to match very well between the two halves, and you can't really be sure of that if you mix them up.

--DD

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

Cases are machined out as one unit. You can´t mx halves.

You can try it and messure and hope or rebore and resurface.

If you toore out the threads you can rebuild them and reuse the complete case. If you cracked the case due the forgoten bolt the needed side is kaputt.

Anyhow some 10 years ago I had been in a machinshop in CAL where they cut type 4 cases to strech them for big cranks and high lift cams. Plus 6 studs per Cylinder......

Only your budget is the limit

Grüsse

[cary]

Because I plan to keep the car forever. I'm looking for a new case.
I emailed these guys this morning.
Riechert Tuning. DE
We'll see what they come back with.

[paulhagedorn]

Aren't there still new cases being made in Mexico?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Not Type IVs! Just the Type I case (also used in pre-72 Type IIs and all Type IIIs). There is also an aluminum one being made. The stronger material overcomes some but not all of the more severe limitations of the traditional Type I mag case.

--DD

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

The last built type 4 where the Van ( bus) engine case wich have some slight modifications. Retrofiting them needs machining down the closed vent tower

The early versions had been sold as 923 case replacment by Porsche. Some years ago you could pic new cases for 400$ at the Porsche dealers wich was lower then the VW price

Grüsse