Check this thread out

[JWest]

Free 912E what to do?

Wayne is bashing (in a big way) the type 4s. Lots of really "great" info pulled from thin air about type4 motors. Check out the post by john70t - he says that type 4 motors have a peaky powerband! Compared to what! Not a 911 engine, that's for sure.

[J P Stein]

I didn't see anything new or outlandish there.

Back when I knew everything, I didn't listen to the fellas that told be that the bottom end of the 409 Chebbie was too weak for all them cubes. My attempts to prove them wrong resulted in spun rod bearings and bent cranks.

Later (when I was dumber & poorer) I started to listen to some of these guys. Just maybe they knew something I didn't wanna' hear.

[JWest]

Well, if you need more specifics, the type 4 has one of the flattest torque curves of all VW and Porsche air-cooled engines. Calling it a peaky motor is both new and outlandish.

Also, a comment was made that the type 4 is more expensive than the early 912 engine. 356/912 engines cost more than 911 engines to rebuild - it's just nuts! Again, completely false info.

I never said the type 4 was as good as the 911 engine, though (not disputing that). See how many cylinders my 914 has in my signature?

[John Rogers]

If I remember correctly, the chevy 409 was actually a truck engine, torque not high RPMs, sort of like out VW type 4 engines, never ment to race????

[Andyrew]

I thought Waynes post was funny speeking you can probably get close to 200 hp out of the engine with doing minor internals and a turbocharger. say 2.3 ltr + k26 + flowing exhaust+ flowing intake+correct fuel stuff. 100 hp, lol thats (close to) stock.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by James Adams
Also, a comment was made that the type 4 is more expensive than the early 912 engine. 356/912 engines cost more than 911 engines to rebuild - it's just nuts! Again, completely false info.

Not quite, James. The comment was that there are 912E parts that are more expensive than 912 parts. And that is very true. Just try to find the large rubber "boot" that runs from the air flow meter to the throttle body. (I dare ya!) Or the ECU. Or the distributor. Or the exhaust. The boot and heat exchangers are definitely NLA; I think the rest are as well. Hard to find and quite $$ when you do. Definitely more than the equivalent 912 parts.

--DD

[bowlsby]

Well there is a line of thinking that the 2.0L 914 engine is not completely a 'bug' engine, but that the design was at least refined by Porsche engineers. Remember that when the 2.0L cars were issued in 1973, it was the replacement to the discontinued 914/6 and Porsche went through it to make it better than it was before in 1.7L form. But even the 2.0L engine shouldn't be considered on the same side of the thin VW/Porsche line as a 911 engine.

The following parts are generally considered to be Porsche engine parts:

2.0L 3 bolt heads
2.0L banana muffler

[Zeke]

Originally posted by bowlsby


The following parts are generally considered to be Porsche engine parts:

2.0L 3 bolt heads
2.0L banana muffler

Unique to the 914, which was known as a VW-Porsche in Europe. Those parts have VW stamped all over them, well the heads anyway. Let's face it, it's a VW motor like Wayne says. It just happens to be one the the better ones according to some pundits.

[Jake Raby]

I can stop the Myths. I have 2 912Es and have built 13 912E engines this year alone.

in short, I would not trade my car for a 911!!

The 912E does have some parts that are NLA, but I have lines on heater boxes and ECUS and even the engine mount bar, hell I have 3 cars worth in my basement.

As for a TIV making 450BHP, its possible, but it would be short lived with current technology, give us a few more years and things will start to happen. I currently know of a company making replacement heads that will allow a pushrod engine to be pushed to 350 N/A HP and still cool, weird thing is they don't have any fins cast into them(nor are they watercooled)

Yes, in my opinion, the TIV IS a better engine than a 911, and I build them as well, atleast in a TIV if you lose 1 o ring you don't waste the engine...we all have our own thing, mine is TIVS, they are all I like and nothing will change that.

[J P Stein]

Originally posted by john rogers
If I remember correctly, the chevy 409 was actually a truck engine, torque not high RPMs, sort of like out VW type 4 engines, never ment to race????

Well, it came from the 348 ci truck motor, but with (IIRC) a 4 .4 in bore & 3.5 in stroke, 2.25 intake valbes & ports like garbage cans, it was a rever. Unfortnately, it had several weaknesses that weren't solved till Chevy came out with the BB 396/427.

Not many production engines are meant to race. The 9eleben is one that comes to mind. It may be the 2nd greatest production motor ever made. .

[Jim Chambers]

OK JP, I'll bite. What is first?

[Bleyseng]

Since he likes Chevys I'll say the 350ci or cuz hes so old the model T engine.


Geoff

[J P Stein]

I read an article a few years ago (don't recall where) about the 10 greatest engines of all time.......AIR, the authors did an international poll of experts in the field. Pure race motors were included.

SB Chebbie came out on top. In the mix were the 911 motor, the Columbo V-12, Cosworth DFV, Ford flathead....can't remember any more. It was pretty hard (for me) to disagree with their top pic...or any of the rest, for that matter......I like to think I have an objective view.