Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 914 & 914-6 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
external oil cooler?

i've been thinking about putting in an external oil cooler on my 73' 2.0.. does anyone have a suggestion on a good size?.. brand?.. location?..

thanks in advance

Jeff
Old 08-08-1999, 08:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,080
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
There are a number of different possible locations for coolers. The choice of location influences the choice of size (or vice versa).

The best cooling will come from a large cooler in the front trunk. Pop out the plugs in the front panel (behind the bumper), fabricate ducting to and from the cooler, and vent the air either out the bottom, or out the wheel wells. Or possibly out a LARGE hole in the top of the trunk lid.

Other options are possible. I know several trailer-riding track cars that have coolers mounted in front of their front bumper. Of course, that means that *any* fender bender or parking lot mistake can easily put your car out of action. (Or kill your motor if the leak isn't obvious before you get in the car.)

Both of those require running oil lines up to the front of the car. This is usually done between the (outer) rocker panel and the longitudinal, or sometimes through the heating ducts inside the longitudinal.

A fairly low-impact location is on the engine lid. A fan is needed to get reasonable air flow through the cooler. The hoses are relatively easy to run. But--you have to remove the rain tray, and you wind up pre-heating your intake and cooling air. Not a lot, but some... This doesn't get the best, highest-pressure cold air, but it does seem to work pretty well.

Another option is to hang the cooler under the rear trunk floor. Again, a fan is needed due to the lack of good flow. The air down there is also heated by the exhaust, so it isn't the best location as far as cooling. But it does seem to work. I was trying to do that one myself, but it was taking too long and I have temporarily halted that project. See Mike "914 Lite" Nugent's homepage for some details on this type of mount. Link from the "Big Fours" tech article.

Some Six converters have done something close to that. They have cut a hole in the trunk floor (in a non-structural area!) and mounted the cooler in the hole. They had already cut holes in the forward edge of the trunk (into the engine compartment) to make room for the fuel system of the Six (CIS or DME), so the air could get in there and out the bottom. Not sure if a fan was used. It seems to work.

Check Steve Iverson's 914 page (on Pelican Motor City, see the main page for a link) for some of the details for the last installation.

--DD
Old 08-09-1999, 04:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
What's your (dave or anyone participating) opinion on mounting the cooler horizontally under the front trunk.. i've got an existing cutout from the floorpan of the trunk (front) for the air conditioning condensor (at least that's what i think it is.. looks like a huge oil cooler, about 20"x12", and hooked up to the aftermarket AC which is now removed from the car) housed in a 20x20 steel box attached to the floor.. and a fan on top of that.. (i don't have much room in my front trunk).. do you think i can get enough air flow through the bottom of the car?.. i'll try to get some pictures so better assessments can be made...

thanks..

Jeff
Old 08-09-1999, 05:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dade County, FL.
Posts: 1,145
Send a message via AIM to JP Noonan
Well if I were to do it the right way...

Use an adaptor plate (I've heard some are better than others as far as interference with the engine mounting bar, don't know which is which. One solution is to look at using a bus oil filter, made for the type-4 but is smaller in dia.) not a bypass that replaces the stock cooler.

Use an honest to goodness oil cooler not a trans cooler. Trans fluid is much thinner than oil, trans coolers can't always handle the pressure from cold oil.

Also use hydralic lines with threaded fittings instead of hose clamps.

If you live where the temp drops then use a thermostat (on the 911 "trombone" cooler they use thermostats) so you 1. get the oil up to temp and keep it there. 2. don't take the chance of blowing out a line or cooler.

The best place (practically speaking, if you want to keep the back trunk) is to put it up front like the 916 or M271 GT 914-6. Another place is to look at the "914 Lite" page the owner put a cooler under the trunk next to the trans with a fan.

Use a thermostatically controled fan.

All this is usless if you are running a car with a faulting stock system because you will still have "hot spots" causing engine wear and detonation. So check this first.

1. Engine compartment seal. It's hard if you have A/C but try to make it air-tight between the top of the motor and the bottom.

2. All the litle gaskets and seals. The spark plug holes, the oil pressure switch, the CHT hole. All these holes if left unpluged amount to a hole in your radiator, not a good thing.

3. Clean the block cooling fins on the bottom of the motor (while you're at it clean the whole block). Clean the cylinder fins (I've found 3 lost spark plugs and tons of pine needles in one motor). Also clean the trans as the VW uses the trans as a heat sink. Problem is you need to remove all the tin ware to do all this cleaning. I pull the motor and put in an old refigerator pan to catch all the dirt and carb cleaner.

Other things that overheat motors are too advanced timing and "luging" the motor in too low a gear. Luging a motor puts more strain on it at too low an RPM. The fan can't pull in enough air, and besides luging can bend the crank.

Mine isn't the only way. Just the right way (hahahahaha, that's pretty funny). Actually there is more to it we'll see if anyone else chimes in.
Old 08-09-1999, 07:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,080
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
On the front trunk-mounted one, I don't know how well it would work. It would probably do better if you popped out the plugs in the front panel of the trunk, and made a duct that went from those to the cooler. Don't give the air any other place to go but through the cooler. A fan is probably not necessary with that setup unless you sit still with the engine idling a lot. (Maybe not even then.)

--DD
Old 08-09-1999, 09:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 571
Garage
Dave's correct here. For the cooler to work efficiently, you'll need massive amounts of cooling air to extract all the heat from the cooler. You will not get the correct amount of air flow if you mount the cooler horizontally under the front pan (terrible air flow characteristics). I too, mounted my cooler up front (even if I went much further than popping the plugs out-pretty much cut out the entire front of the car) and used the 914-6GT cooler housing from GT Racing. Pretty neat install, looks like a purposeful piece of equipment, and keeps the engine at 210 dF. Exactly what we need. Believe me, it's worth the effort and loss of sheet metal to keep the engines temps in line.
Old 08-10-1999, 04:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
alright.. thank you everyone for your input.. i'll probably try to duct something through the bumper.. but the cooler will probably still sit in the spot i mentioned because there's a nice hole cut out for it already..
as promised.. here's a few pictures of what it looks like now.. www.aufaber.com/intake
maybe some further suggestions can be made?..

thanks in advance..

Jeff
Old 08-11-1999, 07:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
note..
picture 1 is the thing that was in the housing before..
picture 5 was taken from underneith the car.
Old 08-11-1999, 07:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
TFI TFI is offline
10 yrs already??
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Worland, wyoming usa
Posts: 303
i have a suggestion for you. it doesn't deal with your cooling setup though. i noticed the wiring coming off of your amp. If you cut that red wire down to where it isn't coiled up like that, and you run it up tight against the wall of the car, you should gain a few watts from less resistance. (and i'd suggest doing something about those yellow wire nuts)
i'm guessing that's a sub amp, it's wired mono. where do you have your sub mounted?

-jim-
Old 08-11-1999, 07:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
start a sub string on the stereo?.. i'll get picture of the sub right after i type this message.. i built a custom box that holds an 8" right between the seat.. quite a task since an 8 actually measures closer to 9.. and the gap between the two seats only measures 8.25..
as for the power.. i'll get to that this weekend.. and the wire nut... well.. too much of a pain in the butt to rerun that wire..

keep 'em oil cooler comments coming!..

thanks

Jeff
Old 08-11-1999, 09:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
alright.. just discovered that the digital camera's flash isn't enough to overcome the night.. so i'll have it up first thing tomorrow morning..

Jeff
Old 08-11-1999, 09:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
alright.. the speaker box picture is in..

Jeff

(sub1.jpg + sub2.jpg)
Old 08-12-1999, 11:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
Hi Brian,

thanks for the reply, don't worry about commenting on my car.. i know its still got problems, that's why i come here..

1. That picture IS a AC condensor.. that's the one that used to go in that hole.. i just thought i'd take a picture to show how big the hole was.

2. When i said "nice hole".. i merely meant convenient. I'm not good at welding, and trying to close that pan backup would probably be beyond me, and i thought that it would be an ok place to mount my ext. cooler.

3. My engine does run on the hot side.. i don't know if it's my gauges, or the engine itself.. i haven't found a friend that's got to a pyrometer to help me out. About 6 months back, it was having horrible response when it got hot ("hot" being beyond halfway on the gauge) but the response was fixed after i adjusted the valves, points, and timing... The heat is still there though, for example: if you live in california, you have an idea of today's weather, not too hot, but far from cold. I drove about 30 minutes on the freeway averaging about 80.. and the temp gauge climbed to about 3/5th of the way up. Is this normal?.. my impression is not.. but i'm not sure what else to check.

Well, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff
Old 08-16-1999, 12:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
Thanks for the quick response Brian,
I'm still learning stuff about my car, i've only had it since the begining of this year, but i do love working on it, gives a sense of accomplishment.

couple of follow-up questions and statements:

1. The hole was cut by the PO.. i honestly didn't even know it was there until about 2 months ago, the bottom pan was pretty good at concealing it.

2. The hole, although crudly cut, is actually pretty sealed against the elements, the bottom pan keeps most of it out, and the edges of the cut, although jagged, are in good waterproof order. I've been blessed with a *almost* rust-free 914, been in so cal for it's entire life.

3. my gauge consistantly gets above the half mark, although it does pretty much level out at about 3/4, i'm not sure if that's a good thing considering if the gauge is right.. i'm probably running too hot, say.. you don't happen to have a pyrometer, do you?..

4. I've recently inspected the fan during my alternator swap, i'll have to check the path to the oil cooler, but if memory serves.. when i was under the car.. the location of the oil cooler really didn't allow all that much air to travel to it... I've already installed the pertronix ignition unit,and the car runs MUCH better, but i think when i adjusted the dwell/timing when i installed the unit, i didn't do a very good job, since the tach is fluctuating a bit during idle.

4. How do I check the mixture setting? on the sparks?.. where do i adjust it?

5. which are the engine cooling tins?.. I have no idea on that one..

thanks again

Jeff

Old 08-16-1999, 02:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
Brian (or anyone else),
I just got a hold of an electronic dwell meter from a friend (more acurate, from what i'm told) and re-measured my dwell angle. I've got the Pertronix Ignition unit installed, and no matter how near or far i move the unit from the distributor post, the readout keeps at about 51-52.. i know the *acceptable* range is 44-50.. is mine out of sync?.. or is this a characteristic of having the Pertronix unit?..

Still working on that heat problem..

Thanks,

Jeff
Old 08-17-1999, 04:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,080
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
The dwell measurement is meaningless for electronic ignitions. Jim T. just posted up a small bit of info on this on the 914 Rennlist. Fundamentally, don't bother checking the dwell angle any more--assume it's correct, or get another ignition gizmo.

--DD
Old 08-18-1999, 07:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: vienna,VA,usa
Posts: 148
i also have the huge, ugly a/c hole in my front trunk but it is from a dealer installed a/c i'm pretty sure. there are also many hose holes (about 1.5" diameter) all around the car. i removed the a/c system and am looking to get the trunk floor rewelded/replaced. i think that was how it was done back then!
Old 08-18-1999, 08:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 399
Send a message via ICQ to oredith Send a message via Yahoo to oredith
This string is getting LONG!

The AC hole is prtty unsightly, would any one like to venture to guess what it's doing to the rigidity of the car?..

on the issue of timing and dwell angle, assuming the dwell is correct, the timing procedure is still the same even with an electronic ignition right?..

Oh Dave, (or anyone else with a good idea) i'm thinking of taking off the flapper boxes from the heat exchange (since i don't ever use heat and would make poking around the engine much easier) and that would leave the 2 holes going to the cooling fan housing, what would you suggest i use to plug those up?..

Thanks,

Jeff
Old 08-18-1999, 09:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
 
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,080
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
Timing is done the same way as long as you have a distributor determining when the spark happens.

The big hole in the front can't exactly be *good* for rigidity. In fact, MikeZ just stated (over on the 914 Rennlist) that his car seems a *lot* stiffer after adding a reinforcement to a trunk floor without any holes! At the least, some cross members may be in order. I also know that the 914's designers didn't usually put too much "extra" material on the cars.

As for the holes in the sheet metal, I figure any way you can plug them up is OK. The aluminized heater flue tape (NOT duct tape!) has worked well for me on the small holes (screw holes, etc.). It might or might not work on the larger ones.

I believe that spray can caps are close to the same size as those holes in the sheet metal. You might try one of those and see how it works. Or you might try some kind of flat plate with a nut over on one edge. There is that small hole in the sheetmetal where the mounting screw for the J-pipe goes... (A little RTV around the edges, and it would probably seal pretty well.)

Just some random thoughts...

--DD
Old 08-18-1999, 08:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:49 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.