Conv. Part List

eric_ciampa · 02-02-2003, 11:17 PM

Alright, alright....
This is not one of those advantages/disadvantages or should i shouldnt i posts about carbs Vs. FI. I have a 74 1.8 with FI on it right now. I have been having problems with it for a while now. Mostly because the previous owner opened up the wiring harness and did god knows what to it. Which makes diagnosing and solving problems 10 times harder for my FI system that is already giving me problems. So off it goes.
Here is my question. I am still learning with mechanics and i want to do this job right, with the right stuff at the right price. I need not only a parts list but also where i can get them. right now here is what i got...
1) Duel Webber 10idfs
2) some type of linkage
3) New Fuel pump
4) Pressure Regulator
From here i need help. some other info... My fuel pump was just put in 6 months ago and has a waranty ...

sorry i spent around 275 for it so that sucks. What about my stock distributer. I know that the 009 sucks and that a maloy would be best. what are they? how much? will mine work? What type of linkage? My mechanic quoted me about $620 for a webber kit with delorto linkage. he said they are not common but they work great. how does that sound. I am in the serrious planning stage of this conversion so once this is done i am takign out my check book and getting the stuff. but i dont feel confident doing this with out some help. so come on and give it to me... what works what doesnt. and PLEASE.... tell me where to get them and a general price....
Thanks guys... sorry this is so long

Barber Dave · Barber Dave's Garage

Eric: If the problem is the screwed up wiring harness, from P.O.
it seeems to me the easest and cheapest thing to do is get a new wiring harnesss. A guy who posts here makes them, I would post his name but I don't want to insult him with my Spelling.
From what I have read here he does a excellent job. Maybe someone who has his harness will post with ther experence. I SEEM to remember his price is about 1/2 of what you are talking about for the carbs. Do a search in the archives and you will find him. Or some one will give you his name. This my 2 cents Dave
www.ohio914meet.com

Ron Meier · 02-03-2003, 03:31 AM

Bowlsby

ruddyboys · 02-03-2003, 04:04 AM

If you have all the componets for the FI, stick with it. To install and set up carbs is a pain in the a$$. The PO of my car made the switch and I cant get them to sync yet.

Rog914 · 02-03-2003, 04:37 AM

Many people think they can solve there F.I. problems cheaper by putting carberators on. It most the time cost more. To make carbs work right you must take stock F.I. cam out and put a carb cam in.

Ralph

Kevin Powers · 02-03-2003, 04:55 AM

what portion of the harness do you need to replace? from the relay panel to the ecu. post a picture, i might be able to help you. by the time you put together a carb setup, my guess is you'll spend a minimum of $500 (lots of used stuff at that price, somebody else's problems). then we'll see your threads regarding syncroing your carbs, jetting them,etc. if you do the swap do not use a facet fuel pump, get a rotary. look at aircooled.net or cb performance if pelican can not help you.

Mark Henry · 02-03-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rog914
Many people think they can solve there F.I. problems cheaper by putting carberators on. It most the time cost more. To make carbs work right you must take stock F.I. cam out and put a carb cam in.

Ralph

Ralph's right, for a good carb engine you have to rebuild/redesign your engine or else you will have a teen that has crap power and poor fuel mileage. There's a lot more to it than just slapping a set of carb's and dizzy on it.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

A few things.

First, Eric, try contacting Jeff Bowlsby here on this BBS, where he goes by "Bowlsby". Or you can email him at (his last name) at aol (dot-com). [Done to help confuse SPAM-bots.] He sells "rebuilt" FI wiring harnesses (and possibly engine and alternator harnesses) that are about 99% new parts. Worth a try--definitely worth at least talking to him.

Second, on the distributor--you have one of the better ones to use with carbs already. The stock 1.8 distributor has a good advance curve already, and if you can get carbs with "ported vacuum" fittings on them, or can have them put on, you can hook up the vacuum advance which should be even better!

Third, on carbs and cams. You do not have to change cams when switching to carbs. The engine will run just fine with the stock cam... Well, it will run as well as a carbed engine can.

But you will be leaving a lot of performance "on the table" if you do stick with the stock cam--you can make a good amount more power if you switch to a "hotter" cam than the FI will deal with.

--DD

eric_ciampa · 02-03-2003, 05:17 PM

Well thanks everybody...
Here is the deal-ie-o. Right now my air mass meter is bad and i need to get that replaced. it rubs and doesnt work right. I know for sure that i need that done. as for the wiring harnes questions here is what i know. the whole FI is torn open and is rewired. even on the relay board something is off because i cant hotwire my fuel pump from the contacts there. My mechanic said that it is a mess. I have talked with Blowsby and he only did 2.0 and 1.7 i believe and not 1.8. he said that he might be able to help me out somewhat though but I got my car running and i lost contact when my thread went down. I looked for new harnesses and they run for over a grand and the lowest price i got for a good used one was 600 and that was a member from here.
I am at the end of my rope with this FI set up. I have owned the car since may of last year and it has been running well for only about a total of a month and a half. i have replaced the fuel pump, sensors, lines, now i need the air mass meter. I cant even find the right hook ups for my cold start valve becasue of this wiring harness. A good friend of my familes is a vovlo master mechanic with his own shop and use to work on porsche cars and did alot of these carb conv. at the porsche shops. he knows the car very well. Also my normal machanic said that his advice was to go to carbs as well. Heck i may even get more HP since i cant get this thing to run right as it is. I know about the whole carb debate but I have the reasorses and to do them right and get them dialed in. and at the very least carbs are alot simpler than this FI set up. What do i need to do this right? Cam?

BenI · 02-03-2003, 05:48 PM

Check out CBperformance.com. They sell all the pieces you need to switch over (linkage, manifolds...) and they are top quality at good prices. I fyou get the Facet style pump with 3.5PSI specs you will not need a fuel regulator and it's cheap. Another option is a rotary pump that makes less noise but is more expensive. CB sells both of these. Jack the front of the car up and remove the skid plate that protects the Master cylinder. On the pass. side you will see a big access hole. This hole will allow you access to the tubes from the gas tank. You will only need one now as the carb setup has no return line. Drain your fuel tank and remove one of the nuts that is holding the line to the tank (this is a PITA but can be done with some patience). If the line you pull off has a cap with a little hole at the bottom of the fuel port, this is the one to plug. You can plug by simply getting a new piece of hose and bending it in half and putting a tie wrap or hose clamp on it. The port you want to put the pump on is the one that has a bigger hole to a sock filter. Now is a good time to check and replace the sock filter too. I mounted my pump right under the skid plate, but make sure to isolate it with some rubber mounts or you will hear it click away in the cabin.

You will also need some sort of throttle cable mount. I use a crude looking bent piece of metal that attaches to one of the breather box studs.

I know you get a lot of FI guys here but I run a set of 44IDFs and have never had any trouble getting them purring. Once they are set, you will never have to adjust them as long as they stay clean.

Good luck!

Mark Henry · 02-03-2003, 06:48 PM

Just an thought but I often see whole 1.8 FI systems go on ebay for under a $100.

Also sometimes guys are selling 1.8 systems because they have gone to a 2 liter. good luck

eric_ciampa · 02-06-2003, 08:46 PM

ya i know that it might be possible to catch a FI system for cheep but i dont know if i feel comfortable with that. I am 19 years old and about to transfer to a university in LA. I will be about 400 miles from my garage, mechanics, and a comfortable place to work. If at all possible i want to take my 914 with me. she runs great when she is reliable. i dont need a rebuild and other than this FI problems i think i can do it. I need reliability and a system that i can understand and work on. and i am sick and tired of this FI system and if i can do a conv. right and make it work that is the way i want to go. I dont feel comfortable bidding on a FI system that is in questionable condition. i fear that i will be trouble shooting all this over again. I want something that i can set and leave. so what do i need to make is work and worth my wild. this is what i have so far...

1. pair of 40's or 44 webers, linkage and manifold. $600. I looked at CB performance and i like them. the linkage looks good and the price seems reasonable. not the cheepest but reasonable

2. No fuel regulator... but i do need a new fuel pump. $45 also availible from CB. I could only find the rotary fuel pump. i dont think PP has any of these things. if they do let me know and i will be sure to support the site.

3. My distributer is fine for my 1.8L so i am good there.

4. My cam that i have is the best of the stock cams to use. but if i want to get more power i need a hot cam. What kind of power am i talking about? where can i get them and how much? Jake may be able to best answer this one.
IS THIS WHAT I WILL NEED TO DO THIS RIGHT! I do not want to rebuild and go bid or anything but i really want to get what i want done now and not in 6 months when i find out i should of done...
thanks guys sorry for making this so long.

Mark Henry · 02-07-2003, 04:58 AM

Ok, Get the 44 webers, a bit big for the little 1.8 but if you bump up the engine size you will be glad you did. You will also need a Uni-sync to dial in the carbs. Don't toss out you FI stuff, just in case you have a change of heart, or deside to sell at a later date.

I don't use the stock distributor, a cheap entry level dizzy is the 009, some guys like the 050, but it costs more and if you have lots of coin to spare get a Mallory with vac advance.
Your fuel pump should only put out 3-4psi. Some of the cheap pumps (and regulators) can't keep up at WOT and lean out at high speed.

The stock cam will work for now, but don't expect any neck snapping performance and the mileage will be at best so-so.

When you crack open the case for a cam, do it with a plan (and some coin) you might want to bump it up with a 2 liter crank and rods, maybe some 96mm slugs and this list could get endless. If you're going this route come back when you do and also check out the STF Type 4orum.
As for the cam, use a Web cam and matched lifters. Cost you about 300 bucks, but once you count gasket set, main seals etc. etc. you will be into a grand easy. You will pick the cam grind last; figure out what is going into the engine first.

Pelican can help you with all the stock parts. Have fun, Mark

eric_ciampa · 02-08-2003, 11:04 AM

ok now i am a bit confussed. I thought my 1.8 stock distributor was the best of the stock ones to use and work alright. and i have read here that the 009 was crap. I believe one person said it was a better paper weight then a distributor. did i mis read

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Nope, you didn't mis-read. Mark mis-spoke. Or he's just wrong.

One thing is for sure, there are always quite a few opinions about different setups in these cars. It sounds like Mark's and mine differ on the 009. (A number of other folks seem to agree with me on it, though.)

--DD

Mark Henry · 02-08-2003, 03:35 PM

My carb and dizzy suggestion is just that, a suggestion.

My opinion hasn’t changed, stick with the fuel injection, it is a better system for a stock engine. In case you’re wondering about the lack of response to your thread, it’s because a large number of people here share this opinion. (Am I wrong on that one Dave?)
I could start a thread right now titled “FI is shot, my mechanic says install carbs,” and I would get a couple of dozen people chiming in telling me to find a better mechanic.

I have the same system as you and it works great, but it didn’t at first. When I got it would only fire if I poured gas down it, a compression test checked out OK. I replaced two bad injectors and their seals, now it ran poorly. Replaced all the vacuum and gas hoses, plus the cylinder head temperature sensor, it ran better but still not great. Then I found out that the gaskets were missing on the oil fill cap, I replaced them and guess what, it now runs perfect.

What I’m saying is that I didn’t give up and stick on carbs.
I have a better running car for it.

As far as any carb and dizzy confusion goes, well, you are entering the realm where EVERYONE has a totally different opinion. Sorry, but if you go this route you better get used to it!

P.S. I have never had problems with the 009, but my 2 are the German 009’s on type 1 beetle engines. I have never had one on a T4 engine.

Dave at Pelican Parts · Dave at Pelican Parts's Garage

Sorry, Mark--I was hoping the

would tell you I was funnin' ya. It was not intended to say "Mark is wrong", but to point out that these are all opinions, and that not everyone's matches...

BTW, it does seem that the 009 works better on Type I engines than Type IV. Evidently they need different advance curves. And the German 009s are actually good quality, as opposed to most of the ones you can get easily nowadays.

--DD

Mark Henry · 02-09-2003, 11:44 AM

It's OK Dave! I was also trying to wink you back, but for some reason it kept giving me a runtime error.

Of course now it works! lol

I've heard a lot of T4 guys don't like or recurve the 009 so there must be something to it. I do know a couple of guys running one though and they don't seem (say) to have a problem. They may not know any different. The 009 is low tech but it's cheap, if you do go with it and don't like it your only out what, 50 bucks.

Like I said, this and everything else with hipo you will get several opinions.

Hey personaly I would go PEFI before I even considered carbs... hey bud check out this: http://www.sdsefi.com/

For the most part you could plug it into your existing FI system, its way better then any carb set-up and the base system is just a bit more than the carbs.

Clay Perrine · 02-10-2003, 11:15 AM

Eric,

I hope you haven't put the carbs on there already. I want to make you an offer. Send me your wiring harness' (both the FI and the Engine harness) and I will check and repair them, and send them back to you with detailed instructions on how to hook them up correctly. If you would like, I can check and test every piece of the FI for you, no charge. All you have to do is pay shipping to my place in Texas for the parts. I have a L-Jet FI tester that I can use, Plus I can put the harnesses on my wife's 74 1.8L 914 for testing. I have 17 years of experience with L-Jet systems, and I know the 914 L-Jet intimately.

If your FI works correctly, then you will be extremely happy with it. Carbs will work, but if you get the kit from CB performance, you will have to remove the rain tray, and the air cleaners in the kit will allow rain to enter the carbs, causing a hydraulic lock in the engine. Trying to start a hydraulically locked engine in a driving rainstorm will make you hate carbs real fast. Plus, the 009 distributor is a POS on a 914. The advance curve is so bad that the engine will not run with any reasonable performance unitl you advance the timing so far that the engine will kick back into the starter when trying to start. I have been there and done that.

Good luck!

eric_ciampa · 02-10-2003, 06:23 PM

Clay~

Clay did i read this right it seems to good to be true. I remove the FI and main wirring harness to you and you go through it and i get it back for only the shipping cost? You got a deal. Understand that i cant garantee anything with my harness. The only reason i was wanting the carb conversion was because i didnt think that i would be able to ever get all the squared away. but with you doing the harness I can do the rest then LOOK OUT another 914 on the road

it might take me a bit (5 days ish) to remove the harness and get send it to you once we finnalize this. My wrench just had hand surgery today (monday) so i need to get into his shop just to get to the car. I do have some questions if you still want to do this, but we can sort that stuff through e-mail. my e-mail is:
champ914@hotmail.com
Also i searched this site and found your website. cool