Adjustable Cam Gear

[Rasta Monsta]

Anyone got a recommendation? I already looked at the Lind$ey version.

TIA


rasta

[Techno Duck]

May want to contact Dave at CEP, not sure what his costs. He makes some very nice custom parts.. i have a few on my car .

Custom Engineered Performance CEP - porsche 944 dry sump

[matty89]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

May want to contact Dave at CEP, not sure what his costs. He makes some very nice custom parts.. i have a few on my car .

Custom Engineered Performance CEP - porsche 944 dry sump

very nice site if the site would be more updated i would probly have done my headwork there they look pretty equiped !

[J1NX3D]

Jeff AKA - FT/Factorytuned on Rennlist makes some pretty sweet kit. i picked up a complete set secondhand unused.

944/944 Turbo Adjustable Cam Gears, Lightweight Gear/Pulley Sets GROUP BUY - Page 12 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[ft_factorytuned]

Thanks for the kind words! Glad you were able to get a kit...

Man that blue is killer!

Jeff
AKA - FT/Factorytuned

[J1NX3D]

Just saw this. No problem im still yet to install it but I've been overseas for 6 months. they'll go on at the same time as a front end service.

[fiat22turbo]

Is there a documented performance increase on the 2.5L from using an adjustable cam gear?

If so, you might be able to use an offset key to set it to whatever the documentation states for max power and not have a need to adjust it.

Just curious, good luck on the search.

[J1NX3D]

Originally Posted by fiat22turbo

Is there a documented performance increase on the 2.5L from using an adjustable cam gear?

Not sure but I have a baseline dyno and another run using a 944MAX 'R' chip

This is what I bought:
CAM Gear 4 Deg +/- Adjustable
Balance Shaft Drive Gear
Accessory Master Pulley
Alternator Pulley
Power Steering Pulley And Hub
Balance Shaft Gears Lightened and Balanced w/ Thrust Washers

Short of using the adjustable camgear I should be claiming back a small % of hp from the weight savings.

somewhere in that thread I linked is this quote by FT:

Very high quality, precision machined, lightweight and highly balanced gears for all 8 valve 944's, turbo and NA. These are made to a very high tolerance, and balanced to a much higher than factory tolerance. These will come anodized, with all hardware required. The alloys used are 2000 and 7000 series alloys which adhere to the AA application charter
for this type of application. Further, these parts are designed and built to the SAE specs, by the book. No worries on hardness (which is only a part of the metallurgical puzzle). The standard disclaimer applies here - these are intended for off-road or racing use and should be inspected regularly. I have absolutely no fear of premature failure on these parts and I think you'll feel just the same when you have it in hand.
Total weight savings without taking the power steering pulley into account:

1379.25 grams, or 48.65 ounces or 3.05 pounds lighter than the full factory gearset! This will result in less horsepower being used to drive the rotating assembly, thereby being transferred through your flywheel and to your drivetrain. The motor won't be making any more power, but more of that power will get to the wheels.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adjustable Cam Gear, lightweight crank-mounted balance shaft gear
Cam timing adjust is located on the rear of the gear. User selectable between standard timing, 4 degrees advance and 4 degrees retard.

Cam gear 1.54 lbs 24.64oz - net savings 13.97oz .87x lbs
Crank gear 1.49 lbs. 23.84oz - net savings 12.07oz or .75x lbs

lightened and balanced factory Balance Shaft gears. These come with lightened and balanced washers as seen in the second picture.
Shaft gears 7.87oz or .93lbs - net savings 3.96oz or .25 lbs

Gross weight saving of 30oz from the combination of these two. Thats almost 2 pounds of rotational weight. This is not insignificant! A fellow 'lister who works on Formula V cars claims a dyno'd 8HP gain! I haven't seen dyno sheets, but he's pretty well known on the Turbo board, and I trust him. Another big advantage, though, is the increased precision and balance, which results in smoother running and less belt noise!

[Aussie944S]

Awesome i want those.... gimme gimme gimme
who else does stuff like this ????

[J1NX3D]

I reckon express interest in that Rennlist thread and bump it back to the first page so it attracts more potential buyers. FT usually advises when he can or can't make a batch but you'll see in the last few pages he's bumping the thread himself for interest before he does a run.

[Aussie944S]

noice.........................

[ft_factorytuned]

Wow, that's about five years old!(the "quoted info) These parts have met with major refinement and are now in GEN7.. More than 3.5 lbs weight savings. These kits have seen many dynos many times, I'm sure. Best thing to do is grab a baseline set of pulls then a new set after installation. You will see power recovered.

The original design intent was to reclaim the Balance Shaft Setup. Porsche says 5bhp cost to run them. You should see every bit of this back on the NA. Some have claimed 13hp recover at the wheels on the 4451 motor. But I have never seen charts. AND these were generally pure race guys. I have seen 11 from my day driver 951 on a gen3 set. But generally refinement is found on the NA and low end torque is improved. PCA sanctioned legal for Club racing as of 09' and I have been told that low end torque is the change on the NA in the PCA/NASA Cup circuit.

Is a good reference as the PCA Cup cars are for the most part "program motors", they have to stay stock for the most part.

I really have let that GB on rennlist die out, as the one fellow said. Most guys know how to get in touch with me at this point as I've been offering these for about 6 years now. Check out the website, I'm making some gorgeous turbo parts for the 26/6 and 26/8 turbochargers as well as bottom-end studs, etc.. You can find specs on the gears and pulleys as well. Please feel free to ask any questions but refrain from posting question with regard to $$$, etc.. As I am not a sponsor of this board and do not want to get into trouble.

Thanks again for the interest.
Jeff
AKA- FT/Factorytuned

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Pimpin' I like.

[Aussie944S]

ooooooooooooooooo, i know where my next pay check is going

[wild man]

The issue that I have with current adjustable cam pulleys is that the adjustment can only tune the cam to a particular engine rpm. And with that you actually take a hit, in terms of performance, at the rpms that it is NOT tuned to. Unless the car is used strictly for racing, the losses outweigh the gains, in my opinion. The stock cam timing is already the best compromise for street driving.

Enter the adaptive (self-adjusting) camshaft pulley. It dynamically changes the cam timing, depending on what rpm it is running at at any given instant, on-the-fly. As far as I know, this device is now merely a figment of my imagination. So I am going to have to consider this post a call for someone to "invent" it. If you could make something like this work, you could make BIG money (and not just on p-cars). In having an engineering background, I understand why it would not be an easy thing to accomplish, especially if trying to do it via purely mechanical means, packed inside of the pulley itself, considering the forces that the shaft undergoes. It wouldn't be as simple as the centrifugal spark timing advance in a distributor, but would operate under the same principle. For it to work, you would somehow have to harness some of those forces to work FOR you, instead of against you. If that simply isn't feasible (but never say never), electrical or (now we're getting complicated) hydraulic actuation could be a possible route to making it work.

Could I be on to something here?

Or is my imagination running away with me again.

[9FF]

The issue that I have with current adjustable cam pulleys is that the adjustment can only tune the cam to a particular engine rpm. And with that you actually take a hit, in terms of performance, at the rpms that it is NOT tuned to. Unless the car is used strictly for racing, the losses outweigh the gains, in my opinion. The stock cam timing is already the best compromise for street driving.



Enter the adaptive (self-adjusting) camshaft pulley. It dynamically changes the cam timing, depending on what rpm it is running at at any given instant, on-the-fly. As far as I know, this device is now merely a figment of my imagination. So I am going to have to consider this post a call for someone to "invent" it. If you could make something like this work, you could make BIG money (and not just on p-cars). In having an engineering background, I understand why it would not be an easy thing to accomplish, especially if trying to do it via purely mechanical means, packed inside of the pulley itself, considering the forces that the shaft undergoes. It wouldn't be as simple as the centrifugal spark timing advance in a distributor, but would operate under the same principle. For it to work, you would somehow have to harness some of those forces to work FOR you, instead of against you. If that simply isn't feasible (but never say never), electrical or (now we're getting complicated) hydraulic actuation could be a possible route to making it work.



Could I be on to something here?



Or is my imagination running away with me again.

If you were really clever you could make that work with an even newer technology, electro-magnetic fluid. It's used on some production cars to provide active suspension. Basically, the dampers have a special fluid that can change viscosity with an applied electrical/magnetic signal trade name MagneRide. If you could fit a smaller damper in there to control the advance/retard on the cam wheel you could control exactly where you want it at various rpms. Just brainstorming...

[emoore924]

IIRC Once upon a time there was something called a "franco gear" that did dynamic cam timing via weights I believe. I believe it was only for the 924 though and long since gone from the market. Never actually seen one in person but there was lots of discussion over on 924.org at one point

I do have an adjustable cam gear on my toofah. $75 from ebay. Works fine. No idea what brand tho (IPC? DPC? something like that). If you want to know, PM to LMK and I can go look...

[wild man]

I do appreciate the input, but I don't think that the problem is in "controlling" the advance/retard, but rather in making it move under the high load that the the valve train presents to the pulley. Opening exhaust valves when under pressure probably takes quite a bit of force, which has to be fed through the pulley.

Continuously variable would be the ideal goal, but a design in which there are say, 3 different possible positions (for low, mid, and high rpm) would surely be easier to make happen, and still be pretty effective. Even that would be no easy task, but I REFUSE to believe that it is outside the realm of possibility. I think that a 3-position (only need 2 actual steps) mechanical/centrifugal force based setup that is completely contained within the pulley is the obvious place to start. If that can be made to work, continuously variable might be a possible goal for generation 2.

[J1NX3D]

924 franco discussion: 924Board.org :: View topic - Franco Gear
http://www.selendesigntech.com/xFranco.aspx


with my cam gear, I was going to leave it at the stock timing setting. i was happy enough with the balance and weight loss of the item than mess with the timing.

[petrolhead611]

Variable Valve Timing-even my daughters Mini First 1.4 has it(its basically a Peugeot motor),and after 2000 miles the servo that controls it failed,so she had to drive home in failsafe mode.