New APR DME Chips

[AJT944]

Has anyone else seen this?
https://www.goapr.com/blog/post/apr_dme_ecu_chip_upgrades_for_classic_porsche_mode ls_911_924_944_968_are_here_/

I was on my way to do a MAF kit from Lindsey Racing, but now thinking maybe this is an easier upgrade? Anybody have any thoughts on these?

[walfreyydo]

APR is well known in the VW and Audi world, but it looks like they are a re-seller of these chips originally made by a company called "Dinan" (never heard of them). APR posted a more in depth thread over on Rennlist

A couple observations:
1) the HP gains are quite high and my assumption is these are without removing the AFM. The S2 chip claims to gain 27hp over stock, which is extremely high. 12hp for NA 8v and 21 hp for S 2.5L 16v
2) the chips do not indicate if they include the removal of the AFM - I am assuming not, so a MAF kit would still likely increase gains above and beyond what the chips bring.
3) the chips for 951 turbo require an upgraded FPR and wastegate spacer, FYI

In terms of the HP numbers I am a little suspect especially of the S2 and I am not sure if APR tested these numbers themselves or were fed these numbers by Dinan. I do know APR to be an extremely trusted vendor and parts manufacturer so I must assume they have invested some time into verifying those numbers...

[Monkey Wrench]

it says it fits 85 to 88 8 valve 944 but my car is early 85, I'm assuming it wont work with the early 85 models , am I right?

[AJT944]

I'm familiar with Dinan. They do great work for BMW vehicles.

I've reached out to them about compatibility with a MAF conversion. It'd be cool if this was added performance on top of that conversion.

[walfreyydo]

Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench

it says it fits 85 to 88 8 valve 944 but my car is early 85, I'm assuming it wont work with the early 85 models , am I right?

I would call to verify. I believe the 85.5 and later cars had some differences with the DME. If they say no, I think there are ways you can get a later DME to work in an early car if paired with a late AFM, but dont hold me to that.

[TheSecondChris]

Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench

it says it fits 85 to 88 8 valve 944 but my car is early 85, I'm assuming it wont work with the early 85 models , am I right?

I think the earlier DME has a chip that is soldered in place and has a different number of pins. I believe that the newer eproms can be used if you unsolder and plug in an adapter.

[djnolan]

I would be skeptical of the NA numbers. They show as much HP gain as you could get with a MAF conversion. here are the two images for comparison.

[Monkey Wrench]

If Im reading the graphs right that chip is increasing max HP but loosing a lot of torque in the lower RPM driving range. That might be good for racers but street cars, not so much maybe? Am I reading this right? About 10% increase in HP , but roughly half the torque at 3000 RPM?
maybe a racer can keep it up in the high ranges but in traffic stopping for lights, one would really use that RPM range a lot.

It could well be that I'm just not quite completely understanding what I'm deciphering here ;-)

HP is power, or "work over time" but torque is turning force, Im not quite sure it's physically possible to have half the torque AND increased power at the same RPM. I might be just lost in a weak understanding of the basic physics.

[walfreyydo]

Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench

If Im reading the graphs right that chip is increasing max HP but loosing a lot of torque in the lower RPM driving range.

Im not seeing this, it clearly shows HP and TQ gains on both graphs. The black chart is the APR chip numbers, the white graph is MAF conversion numbers.

The black graph I have to assume to be flywheel HP (or a different dyno) whereas the white graph is wheel HP. Large differences in baseline HP and TQ between the two charts.

The black chart also doesnt appear to be an official dyno, due to the smoothness of the lines, whereas the white chart is an actual dyno chart, which to me raises more questions about the APR/Dinan chips and the purported gains.

[Monkey Wrench]

I think I read the graphs incorrectly. Thanks Tyler.

[curtisr]

Or this from Sawyer Tuning for a mere $89? Like the above mentioned chips, this comes with the usual hp gains plus:

• Faster Acceleration / 0-60 Times
• Up to 3+ mpg increase
• 25+ Horsepower increase
• Better throttle response
• Installs in minutes
• Up to 35% added torque
• Reduced emissions
• Better 1/4 mile times
• Prolongs engine life
• Smoother idle
• Better towing power & improved passing ability

24 pin only.

[OK-944]

Hmmm...(significantly) more hp and torque across the board, better gas mileage, smoother running, etc. etc. - all for 90 bucks? Seems like the folks at Porsche could have designed this in from the get go. Something just does not add up about this.

[J1NX3D]

Aftermarket chips all do or should do fairly much the same thing. If they couldn't do all the claimed benefits of performance chip I'd be concerned- smoothing idle, smoothing revs, improved throttle response, improved burn, improved heat management, improved fuel economy, improved torque range, improved part throttle and full throttle maps, etc.

Anyone can go to a dyno shop and get their 944 tuned with all of these attributes for 10's of years. Performance chips just provide off the shelf economy with a more general tune for all 944 not just a specific 944.

Their improved peak hp and torque numbers imho are extremely generous. As djnolan points out they are in MAF or even standalone territory.

It's odd that there's no disclaimer about the condition of the customers car engine, affecting the outcome of their chip. A chip isn't a bandaid for a tired engine.

Porsche tuning at the time had emissions, cost and model line up pecking order. They didn't have benefit of technology, hindsight or a supportive fanbase (40 yrs on).

[c5pilot]

APR is big in Audi circles as mentioned. I had their tuning on my twin turbo A6. Good stuff. Dinan is equivalent in BMW circles as was mentioned.

Still I might take the numbers with a grain of salt.


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[Monkey Wrench]

Originally Posted by TheSecondChris

I think the earlier DME has a chip that is soldered in place and has a different number of pins. I believe that the newer eproms can be used if you unsolder and plug in an adapter.

maybe someone comfortable with tiny soldering like an electronics technician would do this for owners of the earlier DME's. Im assuming it involves unsoldering the existing chip then soldering in an adapter so the new E-prom can be plugged in. I'm ok with swapping E-proms that plug in, you just have to be careful not to give it a static shock or bend the pins. Super fine soldering is a bit too small for my existing iron and my eyes. maybe if I buy a solder station and work carefully with a good magnifier It's possible. Likely someone else is more ok than I would be with that rather delicate soldering operation.

[Monkey Wrench]

interesting that the literature says " Please Note: This is a 24-PIN Chip. Please Be Sure Your ECU has a 24-PIN Socket, Not 28"

If you count them, the chip in the picture has 28 pins !

Maybe they got the photo mixed up, or it might be an error in the literature.. something here doesn't quite jive.

[AJT944]

I had mine done by Lindsey Racing. Sent it to them, paid $50 plus shipping, and they got it back within a week. Super quick and easy.

Originally Posted by Monkey Wrench

maybe someone comfortable with tiny soldering like an electronics technician would do this for owners of the earlier DME's. Im assuming it involves unsoldering the existing chip then soldering in an adapter so the new E-prom can be plugged in. I'm ok with swapping E-proms that plug in, you just have to be careful not to give it a static shock or bend the pins. Super fine soldering is a bit too small for my existing iron and my eyes. maybe if I buy a solder station and work carefully with a good magnifier It's possible. Likely someone else is more ok than I would be with that rather delicate soldering operation.

[Monkey Wrench]

Originally Posted by AJT944

I had mine done by Lindsey Racing. Sent it to them, paid $50 plus shipping, and they got it back within a week. Super quick and easy.

Now that sounds like a viable solution and a should reduce the risk of all going wrong due to an incompetent soldering operation, done as a one off by someone inexperienced with soldering on a tiny scale.