OK- I GIVE- how are the headers removed on a 951??

Dave951M · 05-08-2001, 06:53 PM

I started removing the headers tonight from my 86 951. What looked like 8 bolts on the head and 6 more on the flange has turned into a vocabulary expanding experience in both english and deutsch.

Thus far, after liberal applications of PB, the 7 remaining nuts and washers have been removed from the studs. The studs will come next when the headers are down and I'll have to drill out the broken stud (the reason for this lunacy).

The 6 bolts and nuts on the flange are off. The 3 bolts on the union to the wastegate are off. The 3 nuts and 1 bolt holding the short pipe to the wastegate are off.

What next?? The exhaust system on the 951 seems to be extremely rigid, I can't get much flex to get the headers off the studs and out of the car.

What do I have to remove next? The crossover pipe at the turbo? In addition, is there any advantage to replacing the rusty hardware with stainless? Rather than studs, why can't I use stainless metric hex cap screws (grade 8 or so)? I did buy new studs at the dealer ($1.15 ea) but they wanted $4.20 for the nut!!! Is there something mystically special about the nut for the exhaust stud? I have leftovers from Fiat exhausts that have the same thread, is there a reason not to use them? The headers also have a couple of small cracks. They seem to be stainless steel and I have friend who welds ss for a living and builds hot rods on the side. He's volunteered to weld them up, is there anything special to know here?

Any advice from one who has been there, done this will be greatly apprieciated.

Dave951M
Temporarily on jackstands

Tom M'Guin · 05-08-2001, 11:19 PM

If you are pulling the head anyway, the easiest way to go, by all reports, is to pull the head with the headers still on it.

Dave951M · 05-09-2001, 05:25 AM

I'm not pulling the head at this time. Compression is good and there are no signs of a blown headgasket. The problem I am trying to clear up is the broken stud on #4 nearest the firewall before I burn a valve and to weld up the crack in the header. Each operation will entail removal of the headers. I'm just looking for the best way to do it without doing major surgery on the engine.

Dave951M

T86951 · 05-09-2001, 10:58 AM

Hey Dave, I am needing to take my headers off my 951 also. I was thinking about trying to take the coolent tube that runs above the headers off and lifting them up and out. I figured I would drain and change my coolent also. It looks like there would be room. Take a look at that and let me know what you think.
My # 4 exhaust is leaking between the pipe and the flange, I assume it is cracked but maybe the gasket but not sure yet.
good luck

dan

951carter · 05-09-2001, 02:33 PM

the only way you are going to get them out with the head on is to pull the studs and lift them out of the top.use the 2 nut trick. it is not much fun but it will work.

Lawrence Coppari · 05-09-2001, 02:35 PM

Numbers 2 and 3 should come out first. I have always removed the fuel rail to do it. Numbers 1 and 4 requires some finagling but they will slip by without moving engine. It can be done. I cannot recall what position of rotation was needed to get 1,4 out, but it did come out without forcing anything. I should have taken a picture of the darn thing. It took me quite a while to turn it just right to get 1,4 out.

And, indeed, you do have to pull the studs. Sometimes two nuts work; sometimes two nuts with Loctite red plus Vise Grips in addition to the wrench on the double nuts is needed. They do have to come out to get the headers off.

I have chased the head with a tap. You would be surprised to see how improved the threading of the studs is then.

[This message has been edited by Lawrence Coppari (edited 05-09-2001).]

Dave951M · 05-09-2001, 07:26 PM

I'll remove the studs tomorrow night, I just got in from a 17hr day at the shop and somehow, working on the 951 isn't appealing. Since I have new studs for the entire head, I think I'll just go the vise grip route. I need to get a metric tap tomorrow as well. Is there any anti-sieze compound for this that anyone has experience with? We used to use plain wheel bearing grease on the stud threads to keep them from freezing in place. I'm also getting stainless bolts and nuts for the unions.

Dave951M
Enough fun for one day

joegeidl · 05-09-2001, 07:54 PM

You can gain some additional clearance by loosening the passenger side motor mount and jacking up the engine. My 944 N/A was a major pain in the @ss, I finally ended up removing the studs. The two nut trick works pretty well. A couple months later I had the head rebuilt and YES the exhaust manifold darn near fell out by itself. Head gasket kit was $70.00 from German Auto Parts (GAP).
Well worth it if you need to fix a stud anyway. Torque spec on the head was, 15 foot pounds, then 1/4 turn, then 1/4 more.
I hope this helps.

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944 Joe

Gorgo · 05-09-2001, 09:26 PM

I must've been doing something wrong on my '84 NA 944 tonight based on how easily the exhaust manifolds came out. I didn't have to pull any studs, only the coolant tube along the side of the cam box. One thing that may have made the difference is that the motor mounts in my car have been replaced recently (some time in the last year according to the previous owner). The 1-4 half did take a little finagling as mentioned by someone else. Has anyone tried a Bursch header on one of these? How difficult was it to fit on and how did it attach to the catalytic convertor?

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Gorgo, '84 944, '82 Volvo 242 ClubRally

Dave951M · 05-10-2001, 07:52 PM

Thursday night vocab expansion session... Let's see, got 2-3 out, easy. 1-4 is a chinese puzzle at the moment. T86951- I did remove the coolant pipe and it made taking 2-3 out very easy. I used the old double nut trick to remove the studs. My header is cracked major league on #3. The cast iron part is broken off of the pipe. That would explain the exhaust leak. As I said, 4 has a broken stud which was the original reason for this excursion. Tomorrow night I'm going to loosen the pass side motor mount to get that last 1/8in that I need for clearance. Lawrence- I didn't have to remove the fuel rail, although I can see it may be necessary to remove the lines to it. Gorgo- I think you have more room on the 944na than we do on the 951.

I have several questions at this point-
1) The gaskets look reuseable-- opinions??
2) Why not go back with grade 8 screws instead of studs? If you ever need to remove it again, it'll be a bunch easier.
3) What antisieze compound to use if any.

I'm planning to reassemble the mess this weekend.

Dave951M