Replace a 951 w/?
 

If I were to replace my 944 turbo w/something, what do you guys think would be a good car? The price I'm willing to pay is quite flexible, but the range is somewhere between 5-24k or so. Lower the better, obviously. I'd be most comfortable spending about 7-10k.

I thought about buying a subaru imprezza 2.5rs (older model), and swapping a JDM STi engine/transaxle, or get a 240 sx and put another turbo nissan engine in it... Ofcourse there's always the option of going w/a 968, and a turbo but that's lots of work, and money. What else should I be looking at? (300zx/supra are too heavy for my taste, rx-7s are too problematic).
Ahmet

why do you want to get rid of the 951?

May be a 968 turbo....you don´t need extra work and you wo´nt miss your 951...
Or maybe a 911 turbo,a 20 year old one,if 968 is too expensive

Re: Replace a 951 w/?
 

My car. :cool:

a new 951!

I love the 951, I just want a little bit more refinement and perhaps a better suspension design, the semi trailing arms seem a bit ancient after tossing around subarus and bmws etc. w/their a arm/multi link suspensions... The 911 has never been my thing, and the value it represents is nothing to be happy about either. Perhaps if I could have more than 3 cars one could be a 911, I'd also like a garage to keep one in. I feel bad enough about parking my average condition 951 outside a town home, this applies to a possible 968 as well.

Anyway, the 944 turbo is a fabulously executed car, and I do enjoy it a lot. I have been playing w/944s for what 5+years now? I'm starting to get offers of ~7k on my turbo, which seems attractive. I like the car, and it seems solid (ofcourse if I keep it, I will never be "done" w/it) but I never thought it'd be worth money w/205k miles on the chasis. Anyway, I want to be open minded but have a hard time seeing myself in another car (then a 944t/968t), specially considering the fun/$ ratio a 951 presents, even though a 968 has considerably more bling. G96, is your car really for sale and if so why and how much?
Ahmet

Yeah man, it's been up for sale since June. I've known you for a long time this could be perfect. E-mail me.

PorscheG96@yahoo.com

i do have a solution that you might be interested in. pm me if curious.

____________
-too many cars

1995 bmw m3

Hmmm....

'98-'99 Boxster (would be towards the upper limit of your price range, however)

E36 M3

WRX

Honda S2000 (early ones are selling for the low-20's_

Miata (can turbo it and do lots of other mods)

Acura NSX (early models can be ahd for ~20K if you look hard)

Acura RSX-S (FWD but terrific handling)

Lexus SC300 manual (probably a tad haevy for your tastes, but same platform and engine as a Supra...can tubo it and make it into a great sleeper)

Audi A4 (1.8T can be modded very well)

Honda Prelude (another great handling FWD car)

Blackfoot, you have a PM.

M3s are way over priced for what they are (IMO) and offer nothing more for me other than perhaps more bling on the street, and more refinement. I don't see myself living w/a non turbo M3, and turbocharged, I would probably be pressed for money.

Boxter's an idea, but it wouldn't satisfy me w/out two turbos, and that, again would be pushing the price. I could do it, but I don't want to have a car w/lots of custom work, and be out of money, as w/the M3...

A WRX would need too much work to be fun on track or anywhere nearly as capable as my 951 is now, but will remain a possibility because I like them, and they're practical. This is a strong possibility.

S2000 is a little on the slow side, no backseat is a draw back, it's kind of small too. They're also expensive, but lots of fun to drive so perhaps a possibility.

Miata's too small, and too slow. However w/a turbo they do have potential, slim chanse, but possible.

NSX is a car I've been thinking about, fabulous chasis, would be fun w/a turbo, but that would start pushing the money issue a little. I do like how they look, sound and especially drive. Perhaps?

RSX is out, no FWD for me.

The SC 300 is indeed too heavy, nice car though.

A4 is out, that car's a pig w/the overworked 1.8 and that small turbo. Real torque takes lots of money from that engine. I'd do a late 90s S4 before I go to an A4.

Honda Prelude is a descent car, I've owned one (got stolen few weeks ago!). Even as a backup car it was starting to get irritating. Way underpowered, softly sprung, small brakes, etc. Even if it werent FWD I wouldn't consider it (well maybe I would've). :)
Ahmet

traitor
i dont know how realistic a drivable NSX for under 30k is.
i vote for the 968 if possible.
do you have a problem with the 928's?

I bet for it...
And it seems like you own a turbo factory,why that obsession with turbos?You don´t like high torque at low rpm?

I think an NSX for under $30k is do-able, but I haven't been following the market all that closely.

I haven't driven a 928 in a very long time, but no I would not consider one, again too heavy.

Manute, I don't value low end torque much, it seems that other than when taking off (in the city) low end torque is really not that usefull. Most turbocharged engines make their peak torque at a lower rpm compared to a similar naturally aspirated engine, so keep that in mind also. But I have personal reasons as well, I like the challange of driving a turbocharged vehicle, it adds yet one more thing to "worry about", or get used to, and enhance the experience with. I liken it to auto vs. manual transmissions.

To be perfectly honest, I would love to turbocharge an engine that displaces larger than 2.5 liters, has a beautifull combustion chamber, and at least a semi closed deck block w/more than 2 valves per cylinder(968, supra, skyline, etc.). In a perfect world, this car would have unequal length double a-arms in the front w/a 5 link rear suspension, a removable roof panel and weigh around 2800lbs wet with 50/50 or slightly more rearward weight bias, and be front mid, or mid engined, w/about the dimentions of an NSX or 944.
Ahmet

It's a shame the 3rd gen Rx-7's are so problematic - sounds like the kind of car you're looking for...

You could consider a '90 - '91 Quattro Coupe and turbo it. They Turbocharge very easily, feature a 20V 5-cyl engine, are nearly bulletproof.

Unfortunatley Audi's are not the lightest cars in the world, and the engine hangs way over the front crossmember.

exactly! sure, the low-end torque of an N/A does come in handy when racing through low-speed turns with others but after that, it's all turbo, baby. :p the challenge is definitely something that I really enjoy.

Soooo....

Ahmet, buddy, friend, compadre.... if money isn't an issue, just keep it! you'll miss it if you don't! just buy whatever you want and keep the turbo!! you won't regret it

Or how about a 1st Gen Talon TSI? A little older than most of the cars you've mentioned, but something to consider.

Capable, and the cost would be on the lower side...

Just yesterday I let a friend of mine who tracks a modified e36 (who's 2nd engine swap in 9 months I'm helping with), and he got the car sideways just getting on boost in 3rd doing about 65... He says it would take him forever to get comfortable w/a car like mine, for me though, I can't go back to something that's "easy" to drive anymore.

Here's a little history of my car adventure:
I was given a prelude right before I turned 16. I did sway bars, head work, exhaust/intake etc. on it, then I wanted more... Test drove a 944 and bought one in a couple of weeks. I wanted better handling went to 3 times the spring rate, lowered it, put sway bars on it, bigger wheels, exhaust, intake, cam, tracked it/auto-xed it, and that was fun. Then one day there was this pesky type R I was lapping faster than, but didn't have the power to pull from in the passing zones. That was it for me, so I bought the 944t. It's probably making around 310ft-lbs (nearly 2x the power of the last one, around the same weight), upgraded the brakes, and the suspension, and I was alright w/all that for a little while too. I played around with a supercharged C5 for a weekend, tossed around a couple of modified bmws, and got to experience a 350+awhp subie, and predictably, now I want more.

I may buy another car and hold onto the 951, but I just bought an audi quattro last week, so maybe I should calm down... I can't justify owning 3 cars, and I really feel like I'm ready to play with something else. I've always appreciated the 951, and always will. I'm not seeking heart change, just want to play with a different animal. Money is (always)an issue, I can spend 7-10k without touching my savings if I sell my turbo first, and that's what I would like to do. Maybe I'll change my mind after doing some more track events... I always manage to convince myself that the power I have is enough, but I'm sure 400hp would keep me interested a while longer. I just don't want to "waste" more money/time w/a 951 if there's a "better" platform for me to mess around with.
Ahmet

VT944, I like having a rare and distinctive car (I just want too much don't I). However, I've been interested in a DSM for a while so I may do that but perhaps as a second car and not quite the replacement for the 944t. The back up car is currently an audi quattro (which I hope to not modify)!
Ahmet

Sure an NSX is doable for under $30K. It may have higher milage, but judging by Ahmet's 200K+ mile turbo, a 100K mile NSX won't be that bad.

here's one

and another

and another

and yet another

and another

Ahmet,

How about an S4 Esprit?

Jeff

well, i stand corrected on the NSX. i havent seen any that low in the local paper.
how did you like the C5? that would be my first choice if i were in your position. maintenence/mods are so cheap for the ls1 you wouldnt have to budget much for that. they are heavy though. why does it need to be light? i can only think of a few cars that weigh less than 3000 lb from the past 10 years. supras, skylines and nsx's all fall out of that category.

Yeah I was thinking the Talon as a second car, definitley towards the lower end of your price scale.

I too like distinctive cars, and like you I really like Targa tops as well.

Like Jeff I too was thinking from your "wish list" above a Lotus Esprit, but I'm sure they can be a lot worse than a 3rd gen RX-7. Parts must be expensive as hell too.

Hey how about a 2nd gen Mr2 Turbo?? A challenge to drive being turbo and mid-engine, not too small but definitley around the 2500 - 2700lbs range (my guess) fairly exotic (around here anyways). Parts should be reasonable, being a Toyota and it has T-tops (I know not a true targa, which I love too, but close...).

I have a '98 Impreza 2-door coupe with a JDM STI Version 5 engine. It is a Group N rally car we rent out. I just finished it, and I could probably answer any questions you may have.

Good Luck in your search, it will be interesting to see what you finally end up with.

The C5 was nice but they don't seem to be wearing all that well. Torque can be fun around town, traction control is pretty nice to have as well, I imagine it would be an even bigger + in the rain. I didn't find the vette too communicative (this isn't the first time I've driven one, I've driven several corvettes since the C5 came out, thanks to goodyear), and it's a little on the large side, both in driving dynamics, and physically. It is a great car, however despite it's large dimentions, it doesn't seem like a lot of car for the price, many people will disagree I'm sure. At the end of the day, it doesn't suit me. Certainly would be the logical choice I suppose but I just can't bring myself to like the darn things!

I would love to go with a Lotus Espirit. I will have to look into parts availability, and go test drive a couple if I get serious about this. Reliability may be a problem but I'm optimistic! I mean it's not like I drive a ford mustang now, just had a stone go through one of my fog lights, and I'm probably going to have to spend $100+ to replace it...

The 2nd gen MR-2 turbo is fun too but I still don't see myself driving that either, too small but the way they drive is rather nice. Steering feedback could be (should be!) better. This would also be a logical choice but it's not a car that excites me.
Ahmet

May be a Wiegert is enough exclusive for you :)

After all,i think nsx would be the best option.

Yep - sounds like from the feedback you've given, an NSX or an Esprit, and at teh end of the day I will bet the NSX is an easier car to live with...

I'm looking at a 95 S4S w/40K. It needs a little body work but at 20K it might be worth it. I'm still checking the maintenance history. I believe an Esprit will be my next car and keep me satisfied for a while.

What about a 993? The prices are finally coming down. I've never driven one but these seem to have that fine balance of brutishness and refinement. Best of the 911's they say. I've never driven one but I'd like to!

Alternatively why not 2 less expensive cars? Something clean and quiet and another loud, harsh and fast?

Hmm there's no substitute for my 951. but if you want something esle maybe a little more contemporary than my vote is on the STi. A little more that you plan on paying but you'll get something that won't need much else.

270 hp NSX, sad, sad, sad.

LOTUS all the way.

Or how about a mini cooper with a new vette engine in it (TT of course)

how much could it be to ship over a citroen or peugot, like they race in the wrc.

I vote Lotus esprit as well. I've been thinking about getting one for a while now. It really needs to be a turbo though, the non-turbo is really not all that fast (but it still looks really fast)

Mike

Lotus Esprit............ you guys are nuts. I would be ****ting bricks taking an Esprit on an autocross. The thought of something breaking and you all of a sudden have bought the car twice! I love the car but it may as well be a ferrari considering how much some of the parts cost. Thats out of my price range for swapping pads/rotors/worn suspension on a frequent basis!

If you have 7-10 K dump it into the 951. You have been around quite a long time ahmet and you know what 10K into a 951 will get you. A monster that will probably pull away from every single car everyone has listed here.

Thats my 2 cents.

Or like someone mentioned if money is not an issue.... get something you like to drive around town and keep the 951 to beat on at the autocross.....

Either way good luck!

It's hard, but I get tempted sometimes...
Ahmet

i say Lotus too! or maybe a 240 with all wheel drive and a TT engine swap... but i still think lotus! just my taste tho.

The 1995 e36 M3 has dropped DRAMATICALLY in price these days. You'll want to get an 95 because it is OBDI and you can do the Euro HFM mod. Responds better to chipping and intake too. You can get a FINE example for under $15k EASILY these days.

They are definitely priced at a steal these days - you get timeless styling, comfortable interior, very easy to mod (not as easy as FI), and tons of aftermarket support. Its not as "luxury" as you would htink - it still performs great in stock form at the track. I always thought the m3 was overrated - to an extent it is - but it is still a fine car.

The pragmatist in me has to agree with ae1969 -- first off its British, how reliable CAN it be! I was lurking on a Lotus board awhile back -- sure the car IS seductive, but what I read would make me think several times before buying one -- VERY expen$ive to maintain.

check this out -- just a little over $30K AND you should autocross it! Honda powertrain to boot! 1240 Lbs...240hp oooh baby!



http://www.worldclassmotorsports.com/main.html

else

for reliability and performance -- M3

or 350Z

I still feel that the e36 m3 is over priced, and over appreciated. I like the cars, but I wouldn't consider one a replacement for my 951. I'm looking for a sports car, not a sports sedan (which is why I'm not really inclined to go w/something like a subaru).

I've always liked lotus super 7s (/various kit versions obviously), but I like to drive my car daily, and I don't know if that's a good idea in a small roadster weighing less than 1200lbs. It'd be a pretty crappy way to go if a suburban didn't see you and try to park where you were... If it weren't for this I would probably own a beck 550 w/a custom suspension by now.

To be perfectly honest I feel like in the end I'll probably stick to my 951 until I can afford to build a 968 turbo, and have a garage to keep it in.
Ahmet

One thing about the Porsches and BMWs as compared to the Vette is maintenence if you are going to do any autocrossing or DE. My friend would really like to get rid of his C-5, and get a BMW. The guys that are Driving the Vettes and Comero/Firebirds are always going through brakes (cracking etc). According to him, the BMW's and P-cars are much more reliable on the track. Could be the M-3 is a little over-rated, but it is a tutonic tit-willow!

350Z and it new!

now just supercharge the s2000 engine, and do a few other mods for 350 rwhp and away you go