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Turbo Brakes on a N/A

I am just curious if anyone has put turbo brakes/rotors on a N/A or 968 brakes/rotors or anything along these lines. I was wondering how hard it would be to do and I know after 86, things changed on the N/A's. Just a thought...

Any Ideas?
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Old 02-22-2004, 06:18 PM
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I'm not sure there's a big diff in the mounting after '86. I've got a 924S and with the early offset using steel control arms you can't mount the turbo brakes due to the different mounting bolt positions. I had to buy the front spindles and hubs, to make the calipers fit.
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Old 02-22-2004, 06:30 PM
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Bump! Someone please tell me that I'm not the first person to think of putting 968 brakes onto a 944....
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Old 02-23-2004, 01:07 PM
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I have 951 brakes on my '86. The car came this way. My control arms have 951 prefixes, so I believe that the control arms and brakes are from a turbo. My rear brakes are stock (NA), so I'm glad that the fronts are from an '86 turbo, otherwise my front and rear wheels would have different offsets. If you want me to check any specific parts, my 944 is up on jackstands right now, so it would be no problem.
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Old 02-23-2004, 01:41 PM
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The 968 M030 and 993 calipers, front and rear, are the same. As far as the rotors go, actually the difference is in the hat offset as both the 968 M030 and 993 rotors are cross-drilled.

Expensive mod ... but the real question is .... are you sure you know what you gain from this swap.
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Old 02-23-2004, 01:58 PM
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I am just seeing if it's possible. I think there would definitely be a gain in a larger rotor and larger calipers. I was reading an article about 968 rotor and pad replacement and I realized how big the rotors are. The same control arms should fit all models or at least that's what I've gathered from looking around. I was just bored and wondering if anyone has thought about this....I've gotta think of something to get me through me classes....
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Old 02-23-2004, 05:09 PM
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The rotors off a 968 are huge! They also weigh more then your stock brakes. Heavy is bad on a N/A, as we are already low on the hp scale. Are you going to road race? Bigger brakes dissapate heat better, but don't stop your car that much faster. (much better for road racing) Swapping brakes from an 87-89 951 will require rotors, calipers, hubs, and ?? Lots of junk yards around if you decide to go through with it.
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Old 02-23-2004, 07:06 PM
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Actually we've been down the 'mechanics of braking' road before, but larger rotors do improve braking performance. The reason that cars with higher horsepower need larger brake systems is to deccelerate them at a rate that matches their acceleration capability. You don't want a car that can acelerate 0-60 in 3 secs, but then takes 400 yards to stop. What really improves heat dissapation is crossdrilling and rotor hat design. Brembo's new racing rotors use a two piece floating rotor design, that uses aluminum alloy hats, and ceramic rotors. The two different metal types and how they're bolted together minimize heat transfer to the hub as well. The biggest braking improvement you can do relatively inexpensively for an NA is to get a Turbo set-up. The four independant pistons per caliper give direct and increased braking pressure and almost instantaneous release, and combining a larger drilled rotor, gives better braking torgue and cooling. Add some good quality pads and some braided SS lines with quality fluid and you're ready for the curves. Unfortunately early 944s require the spindles because of the different turbo caliper mounting bolt positions, but it's still a lot less that an official Big Brake kit, and more than you'll need for a stock NA motor.
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Old 02-23-2004, 10:20 PM
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Really? Just switch the spindles?
The control arms are the same? Strut mounts?
Neat-o.
I didn't know the turbo's had 4 independant pistons per caliper, unless you meant the 993 turbo's calipers.

If you upgrade the size of your rotors/calipers, remember that they won't fit under 15" phone dials (or so I hear).
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:29 AM
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Zero10

Quote:
Really? Just switch the spindles? The control arms are the same? Strut mounts? Neat-o. I didn't know the turbo's had 4 independant pistons per caliper, unless you meant the 993 turbo's calipers. If you upgrade the size of your rotors/calipers, remember that they won't fit under 15" phone dials (or so I hear).
That's a good question. I know the strut mount bolt locations are the same up top, but the turbo spindles might not match early strut housings on the bottom (I've got '87 944S housings with Konis). But there is definitely a difference in positions of the mounting bolts between the stock early calipers and turbo calipers, and I believe you're right about needing at least 16" wheels. Here a pic:

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Old 02-24-2004, 12:47 PM
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Well, I have an 88 which is not the early spindles. Are these the same spindles that are on a Turbo? I also have 16 inch phonedials which I know come on the turbos. Assuming the spindles are the same, all I would need is calipers, rotors, and pads, right?
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Old 02-24-2004, 01:58 PM
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Try going to the Automobile Atlanta Web site. They list all the parts and part numbers and you can see if they match up. The problem is if a stock '88 and a turbo caliper mounting holes don't line up, then you'll need the turbo spindles since the calipers mount to the back.
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Old 02-24-2004, 02:29 PM
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I couldn't find anything on Auto atlanta about spindles. Would the Turbo spindles fit the N/A? I am really considering doing this. It's a lot cheaper than any other big brake kit and it seems worth while for racing. I figured that if anyone would know about this, it would be people on this board. There is a set of front turbo calipers on ebay but I don't think I would buy them off of their. I would really like to do this and I just need to know what I need to buy to make it fit if it is in fact possible.
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Old 02-24-2004, 02:42 PM
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Cross drilling does nothing for braking ability, looks nice and causes disc cracking is about it. (we just replaced the discs on the 935, cross drilled and cracked, suprise, suprise)

Two piece disc/hat assemblies are to allow disc "floating" which minimises disc warp under severe race conditions.

Improving the mechanical leverage will improve braking, ie; larger disc diameter. Obviously discs with more mass will dissipate the same amount of heat better than smaller discs. (If you put 951 brakes ona 944 NA)
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:40 PM
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Just a look at what the maker of Porsche OEM brake systems is saying on the subject of their latest and greatest:

"Gran Turismo Brake Systems

The next performance level, Gran Turismo, is comprised of both 1 or 2-piece vented rotors that are 12 to 14 inch cross-drilled and/or slotted. In the 2-piece system, billet aluminum hats are application specific and have been individually machined to engineering specifications. The marriage of these pieces create a "floating disc" which reduces heat related stress and improves brake performance and pedal feel. The Gran Turismo system may be available with your choice of black, red or silver calipers.

Sport Brake Systems

At the Sport level, an end user can find both an introductory performance solution combined with an appealing aesthetic application. The Sport level is comprised of a 1-piece drilled or slotted and solid or vented rotors according to your original manufacturers requirements. A complete set of performance pads may be available."

And on braking in general;

" What are the benefits of opposed-piston fixed calipers?
A fixed caliper is secured rigidly to the axle assembly and has at least two opposing pistons that force the pads against the disc. A sliding or floating caliper has pistons on only one side of the disc. Therefore, when the caliper acts, it must slide or float in order to bring the pad on the opposite side in contact with the disc. Nearly all original equipment calipers are of the floating type. In a system with fixed calipers, not only is the mounting much more rigid, but the stiffness of the caliper itself is greatly increased. This manifests itself in enhanced braking performance, pedal feel, and pad wear

Why use larger discs?
Braking generates heat, and the more heat the disc can absorb and dissipate, the greater the fade resistance of the system. Additionally, the use of a larger disc generally results in a larger effective radius, which increases brake torque.

Why use drilled or slotted discs?
Drilling or slotting discs aids the disc in several ways:
The edges of the slots or holes continuously clean and refresh the pad surface as well as providing increased brake "bite". Additionally, they prevent gasses from collecting between the pad and disc interface.
The disc is lightened, thereby decreasing its rotational inertia.
Improved ventilation increases the disc's ability to shed heat, resulting in cooler operating temperatures."

Check it out: http://www.brembo.com/hp.htm
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Old 02-24-2004, 09:27 PM
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Ummm, back to the original topic.....so is it possible or not?
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:34 AM
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I hope so, it's the core of my new front suspension. Once I get the calipers (turbo) painted I'll post a pic of the final install.
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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
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Old 02-25-2004, 08:59 AM
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wonderful, I am going to undertake this adventure this summer then.
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Old 02-25-2004, 09:21 AM
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I have turbo brakes on my NA.

For 86 its easy.... the control arms are the same on the turbo and NA.

You will need...
- turbo spindle, hub, strut, disc, caliper, shield......
(the NA strut has different mounting points at the spindle for that year)

For 87 + (not 100% sure)

- the offset on the turbo and NA for those years are the same using the later offset. You are using the same control arms on those respective years as well. I would imagine the same parts listed above would work on the later offset.
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Old 02-25-2004, 10:42 AM
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Alex,

By strut you mean suspensions strut? Suddenly this all got very expensive. How much did it cost you to do all of this if you don't mind me asking? Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-25-2004, 10:58 AM
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