S2 vs. 951

[legion]

Aside from the engine (intake/exhaust included) and transmission, what are the differences between a 951 and S2?

Do they have the same speedometer (aside from the boost gauge)?

Does the S2 have aluminum control arms?

Is the stock ride height the same for both?

[Dantilla]

S2 has the same control arms.

I've had both, but I didn't leave either one at stock height.

[legion]

Basically what I am getting at is trying to determine if there are as many differences between an S2 and a 951 as between a 951 and an NA. I'm looking at both S2's and 951's, and aside from the obvious (engine and transmission), they seem to be identical.

[rammstein]

The difference is I can sell you a really sweet 951

[rammstein]

I believe the suspension and brakes are the same.

[Dantilla]

Yes, the cars are almost identical. A while ago, I drove my S2 at a lapping day with a couple friends with stock 951s. Lap times were the same.

The S2 makes a better car in traffic- lower gearing and low-end torque with no turbo lag.

The big advantage of the turbo is the aftermarket parts available to increase power to levels that an S2 cannot even dream of.

[fast924S]

Yes 951's unless modified do not make very good autoX cars beacuse the turbo isnt always spooled up. From what I understand the S2 and 951 have same suspension. IF your looking for fun back road and track/highway driving or just looking for more power go with the 951, if you want the happy medium between the NA and 951 then get the S2

[Z-man]

Keep in mind that the 1986 951 has the early offset wheels and did NOT come with ABS standard - I don't think it even was an option for 86. I mention this because most 951's I've seen that are for sale are 1986 models, early offset, non-ABS cars. That said, you can only put Fuchs on an early 951. (And early offset Phone dials, and other wheels, of course)

The later 951's are identical to the 944S2 in terms of wheel offset and ABS. So in terms of wheels, you can go with Phone dials, D-90's 968 5-spokes, 951 Turbo cups...etc. OF course, you can use these wheels on an early offset car with spacers.

Don't know if that is a consideration for you.
-Z.

[Dan in Pasadena]

ZMan, What is wrong with spacers for a street driven only car, if anything?

I will shortly be selling or trading newly powder-coated black 993 replicas ( I know, I know, the younger guys like them, I REALLY do not). Debating with going back to fully polished early offset PD's (like my NA) or going with C2's or possibly Twists...but I doubt Twists..maybe

[legion]

For as car knowledgeable as I consider myself, I am a complete ignoramus when it comes to wheels. I've never put different wheels on any car I've ever owned.

What is the offset? Can it be changed [to late offset] with spacers?

[Z-man]

Originally posted by Dan in Pasadena
ZMan, What is wrong with spacers for a street driven only car, if anything?

Dan, Nothing at all. They are fine for track driven cars too, IMHO. Just pointing out that spacers are needed in order to fit late offset wheels on early offset hubs.

legion: Surf on over to the tirerack. They have some terrific tech articles on all things wheels and tires.

Click HERE for wheel offset information. (Note: Early 944 wheels had a 23mm offset, while late offsets are 55mm front, 52.3mm rear.

More tire tech info.

Hope this helps,
-Z.

[Dan in Pasadena]

ZMan, Thanks. Yeah, I know that 944's have early and late offset. As I mentioned I would like to pickup some wheels for my new 951 - we'll see how the repairs go/cost.

I do kinda assume that spacers are not really desireable because they place additional loads on the wheel bearings, and to a lesser degree the axles - though I doubt this is a serious consideration for a street car with proper maintenance. Maybe a bigger consideration for a true track car...but a "true" track car would have the lightest, proper-fitting wheels the owner could find.

Now, anyone want to trade for those black 993's?

[legion]

What are you looking for in trade?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Lots of city driving, S2, highway, 951. My 951 would get old in traffic, but on the highway, with room to stretch it's legs, it is amazing. Or, how about one of each?

[DannoXYZ]

Porsche themselves used spacers and wheel-adaptors on their cars. On the rear of the '82-85 944NA and on various 911s like the 930 and 993. Most likely to get their off-the-shelf inventory of wheels to work.

I've got a WheelsFAQ on my 951 RacerX website that goes over offsets and how to measure everything. Also a warning note on not using the wheels table from the 944 FAQ since it's got numerous errors. Also has instructions and parts list to show you how to add longer studs and spacers to the early-offset cars. Once done, you can use BOTH early or late offset wheels.

"Keep in mind that the 1986 951 has the early offset wheels and did NOT come with ABS standard - I don't think it even was an option for 86. I mention this because most 951's I've seen that are for sale are 1986 models, early offset, non-ABS cars. "

There were more '86 951s made than all the succeeding years combined... That's why they're so plentiful.

[jimbilly]

I was in one of those stock 951s when Dantilla had the S2 (before I bought it from him). It was pretty surprising how identical the speeds were, I would have sworn that the 951 pulls harder in 3rd and 4th, but lap after lap the cars just stayed in the same places.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally posted by legion
What are you looking for in trade?

Whatcha got?

I m probably most interested in C2's or 17" Twists. But MIGHT be interested in Fuchs if they were a good enough deal. Make me an offer.

My favorites are some of the most expensive wheels: Fikse FM-10's, Kinesis makes a similar style wheel as does HRE. I really love Speedlines and whatever is on what's-his-names-951...the Guards red one on Rennlist that got rebuilt after a fire and is AWESOME (apologies, can't remember your name at the moment - sorry). Any offers?

[jimbilly]

Dan in pasadena: Do the right thing and get the Fikses, my friend Mark got these and I think his car is now one of the best looking 951's I've ever seen.