HELP NEEDED! please, im in need
 

ok so heres the deal, got the '44 put back together today, vacuum lines done, etc. im having other issues though.

here goes:

there is lots of slack on the throttle cable, so much as to where it wont idle, it wont stay running unless im pushin on the gas, even then it will bog out heres an example of a what happens

1. turn key
2. car starts, needle immidiately drops to 0 and stalls unless gas is applied
3. if i push the gas pedal all the way down, i dont get a response from the engine for atleast 3 seconds, then i get a *vroooom* then it drops back down.
4. tried fumbling around with this to get an idle going, no sucess, i looked at pictures to make sure i have the mounting plate and wheel installed correctly, to my knowledge i do have them installed correctly (tried for 15 min to see if it would go on any other way)
5. i tightened the bolt going from the cable to the fire wall, it is fully compressed, and that only removed maybe 1/2 the slack, still not idleing, still takes a long time to get a response from the engine after compressing the pedal.

how do i tighten this??? im soooooo lost, like i said, ive tightened the 2 bolts on the fire wall as much as they would go and still i have lots of slack

what am i missing here? what is causing this? how do i fix it? please someone help, as soon as i get this fixed my 944 will be running again, i have a deadline i really need to meet this friday and this is the only thing holding me back.

AFM connector loose/disconnected?

nope, checked it a few times as i thought the same but its connected, all vacuum lines are secured as well from what i can see and tell.

check the vacum line that opens that little flapper door on the intake.

you mean the 2 lines going to the throttle body? ive checked those, also checked the one under the manifold, one going into the side of it, the 2 going to the fuel rail (damper and regulator), the ones going to the temp. valve. the aux. air controller, tps and afm are both connected securely.

im leaning torwards the problem being the thottle cable, i can take the cable completely off the wheel without turning it.

that's not good. I don't know what to tell you. Do later years have a differnt cable perhaps? Maybe somehow you got one of those if you replaced it. I'm also not sure about it dying like that. I would think it should at least idle. I noticed my cable it tought but I didn't think it was actualy keeping the throtle cam from turning the oppicte direction.

the car should idle fine without the cable attached. when i redid the cylinder head on my '83, i forgot to attach the large vacuum line under the manifold. did EXACTLY what you are describing. i bet you have a large vacuum leak somewhere.

have you tried to manually (from under the bonnet) hold the throttle butterfly open to get an idle going?
I'd be tempted to check the idle control valve, if it sticks you'll have one hell of a time getting it to run right!
Also, check your Oxygen sensor's not become disconnected.
just a thought.

the hose is connected, but what if it is pinched? i think it might be folded in half, either way, how does anyone explain why the throttle cable is extremely loose?

no i was thinking about trying that but i had to get going, ill try that tomorrow, i dont believe there is a IVC on the early models. o2 is not disconnected although it is to be replaced soon.

There should be just a little slack in the throttle cable. It is not used to controll your idle. There is an adjustment on the AFM for idle. Also, check the big vac line that connects to the bottom of the J boot to be sure it is fully seated and sealed. Inspect J boot for any cracks. It sounds like you have a big vac leak.

There is an idle valve on the early 944s. If you look at where it meets the TB there is a little 8mm looking nut. That would be it. If i am not making enough sense I'll try to take a pic later. I adjusted mine this weekend. I got it to idle at 1200-1500 min. Haha. I gotta find something else to adjust now

ok ill double check all the lines again, but im not talking slight slack in the cable, this is a large amount of slack.

oh sorry i was thinking about something else, i would do this but i cant even get it to hold an idle at all, i didnt adjust anything when it was off

didnt touch the cable or throttle wheel when it was off other then setting it aside, didnt touch the icv, didnt touch the tps.

i noticed the vacuum fitting on the bottom of the j boot was not sitting in there 100% of the way, i could see shiny metal (5-6 mm) against the dirty metal, i couldnt get it to seat the rest of the way, could this be it?

still though im completely clueless to why there is all this slack now.

AFM connector loose/disconnected?

nope checked it

<B>ALSO:</B> when i was cranking my friend said he heard a popping sort of noise like metal hitting metal, i took off my intake pipe, pushed the afm door in and let if spring back to make a noise which was what i thought it was and he said it sounded just like that except it was really loud, maybe this is related?

did you try pushing that in while trying to start?

I think you have two problems...cables being one, but the bigger one is why it doesn't run correctly. I agree with the rest of the guys, sounds like a major vacuum leak. Even if it doesn't idle, you have to figure out why it doesn't accelerate and one cause of that could be to too lean a mixture probably because of vacuum leak. Another possibility is the reference sensors not setting the timing correctly. If it's retarded too far or advanced too far, it will knock and not accelerate. I have no idea how to check that, so hopefully someone will jump in that can tell you how to set those.

Here is a picture of my throttle cam and I'm hoping you can get a feel for where it stops and how the cables should look on the engine. If yours looks like this, the problem with the cables has to be where they attach on the other end. Hope this helps for this one...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1143007059.jpg

TPS....With your hand move the throttle cam and listen for a click. This click should be heard as soon as you turn the cam. If it does not click that could be your problem.

To adjust the idle you must bypass or delete the ISV first then turn the idle screw 7mm/8mm down till desired RPM is reached then reconnect the ISV.

Dal

Philly,

I'm no Porsche expert, but here is a $3.00 guarantee to find out if you have a vacuum leak. Go to your local parts store, get a can of carburetor cleaner. Spray the cleaner on any suspect hose, and even around the intake areas, you never know. If you have a leak, your engine will race up to 2500-3000 RPM.

I have seen a lot of crazy stuff with vacuum leaks. You'll probably need someone to start the car while you spray the suspect areas first.

I used to work in a restoration shop on American Muscle cars, and this is how we did it all the time. Sounds korny, but it works.

Frank

Razorback - i dont know why, you seem to have 2 cables, i only have one and have always had one. i got a good look though to how mine should look.

i checked the tps as well, it clicks every time i slightly turn it from its staionary position, im led to understand this means its working properly. today im gonna check my vacuum lines over, all of them maybe even remove them and reinstall and retighten them. i have a feeling its the one underneath the intake manifold.

Steiner944 - i have starting fluid on hand already so i will try this method too.

One cable on the right is for the cruise control.

Did you adjust the cable at the bracket? Loosen the nut and spin the adjuster to remove the slack.

Check inside the AFM for contact on the wiper board. If there are white spots or the groove is worn the idle can be effected.

Dal

Off on a tangent, have you checked the engine ground? the problem may be a loose ground connection or it could be with the actual spark distribution system.
Do a check on the plug wires to see if they're sparking ok.
It may sound way out, but I had a similar problem when my engine ground loosened up on a previous car... you never know! :)
It wouldn't explain the slack in the cable though... that could be where the cable clips into the accel pedal... as well as it may be the routing of the cable... THAT had me stumped for hours once...

Does your bracket have a place for two and maybe you have the cable on the wrong part of the bracket? Just grasping for straws here.

Razorback1980 - yes i have 2 slots, it is in the right spot, this is what confuses me, i didnt even touch the cable when things are apart, my car was conspiring against me while i was away from it i guess.

scintaar - havent checked grounds yet but will as im going to change the battery terminals and figured id clean all the grounds while im at it.

924Sman - yes, i loosened the bolt and tightened it all the way, there is still remaining slack. i think i fogot to connect a vacuum hose but then again my mind might be making things up to make the situation more bearable.

thanks everyone for all the ideas/info, if anyone has any more information or ideas PLEASE feel free to share them, it wont hurt me to try.

on another note, you guys know the 'J' shaped vacuum hose that has another opening on the bend? exactly how is this hooked up? i think i might have this messed up.

Check the vacuum line that attaches to the underside of the intake manifold itself, near the back of it, on the "log" part. It's very easy to forget this one when reassembling and it's a big vac leak if you miss it! It can be got to from underneath the car if you've got slinky arms. Mine's an 83 and the 85 intake I have here has it in a slightly different spot but both are out of sight from the top of the motor.

Razorback's car is an auto - 2 cables.

ya the one that connects under neath the manifold near the back sort of? this is where i think i might have missed it.

and in the picture below (i think this is the piece your talking about slam), where do each of these go? this is the vacuum piece located underneath the intake manifold, it sits near the oil fill tube and oil check tube. im pretty sure one end goes into the intake manifold (duh..) but where do the other two go? and which end goes into the intake manifold.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1143085589.jpg

Umm, yeah, that's the one I mean. As far as where it goes? I'm running on memory here so bear with me but I think you've got a limited number of choices anyway - brake booster, crankcase breather, aux air valve. If you can wait till tomorrow I can go out and have a proper look. Chances are somebody here knows exactly though. If you've got it hooked up to everything but the intake then the way it fits should be self-explanatory (love those German engineers!).

Anybody know exactly how this fits? I did mine months ago and forget.

ya i wont be messing with it until noon-ish tomorrow anyways. i think only one side is connected, who knows though i cant remember what i did with that piece. damn.. gonna have to take the intake manifold off again.. its such a pain to get on lined up with the gaskets, any tips on doing this?

My J boot has two vacuum lines connected to it. I missed the first one and mine wouldn't run without holding the throttle open quite a bit. The first one is right on the corner on the underneath side and that's the one I missed. The line just pushes into the hole in the J boot but you can't see it from the top of the motor. The second one is after the bend toward the intake manifold and it goes to the oil separator if I remember correctly. This one has a clamp on it and it is visible from the top of the engine. I'm sure you already did, but check those two. I am out of town on business right now or I would take a bunch more pictures for you to check. I'll do it when I get home if you still need the help.

One end is to the ISV(larger end) smaller one connects to the steel tube coming from under the AFM(plastic tee) the other to the oil seperator which is under the manifold to the rear of the motor and near the bell housing. Quart sized canister that has a hose connection on the top of the can.

12"long hose with small elbows run from one steel tube on the manifold(horizontal tube) to the tee under the AFM. The other steel tube on the manifold(vertical) is to the other port on the ISV.

Kind of shooting from the hip but this should get you close.

I may have the 12' hose wrong, it may go to the the OS.
Dal

ok so heres a synopsis for everyone, its a long story but please read:

i pulled the manifold and fuel rail again so i could check all the lines, everything was hooked up, after searching for about 30 min and taking a few pictures to post on here i put it back together, i saw that a vacuum line going to the aux. air valve was being pinched between the balance shaft housing and the intake manifold, but despite that fact i decided to start it again, bam started right up, smoked a little as i need a new o2 sensor and an oil change, but it ran, it was idling high (1200-1300) though

put it on a lift, changed the oil and oil filter, put it back down, started it let it run for 5 min, checked for fuel leaks several times. nothing, running good, still a light smoke coming from running terribly rich, im sure my spark plugs arent liking this.

anyways, took it for a quick spin around the parking lot, throttle cable is still loose, i need to push the pedal about 1/3 of the way to the floor to even get a response from the engine. will sort this out after i sort of another problem, what another problem? yes.. here goes:

im on my way home, making my way down the parking lot, still idling high (1200-1300) and im coasting down a hill. then boop.. idle drops to 0, battery light comes on, and i say "ahh ****!", hurry and pull into a empty parking space, let it crank for maybe 10 seconds but no response, since this is what happens when the relay goes out i switched with a relay (came with the car) which i had just re-soldered a week before, crank for maybe 15 seconds, no start.

pop the hood and look for anything disconnected, vacuum lines, fuel injector harness, afm, tps. everything, and nothing was undone. i did notice my cam cover was very hot, i burned myself when my elbow brushed against it, car was only running a total of 10 min before, im suprised it got this hot, also there is a tick, it used to be a slow tick i had, like tick..........tick..........tick
now its more like tick....tick.....tick.....tick, i thought it was probably from not running for 3 months. i have no idea what to do now, my friend was driving right behind me incase something like this happened, so he gave me a ride home, and here i am, trying to find out what the hell is going on.

someone tell me whats wrong, i really dont want my car to be sitting in a parking lot at night all alone, especially when there is a guy who drives a Z28 camaro, and has it in for me big time.

someone please help, i need to get my car home tonite, what do you guys think the problem is? dme relay?? i think that but why wouldnt 2 diff relays work? uhhgg. this is frustrating.

and just so it might help here is a list of what was changed while my car was under the knife:
fuel filter
vacuum lines
rebuilt injectors
cleaned intake manifold and throttle body
new dme temp sensor
cleaned all connectors (afm, tps, etc)
oil change

I had a problem, the dying problem, and it was my battery grounding out on the hood. I know my optima is too tall but I wanted to run that battery since I paid so much. Anyways i switched it over to a side post. Haven't had any trouble. I don't know if this helps but won't hurt.

timing belt. take the distributor cap off and verify that it is turning when the engine is cranked.

ok well its too late... :( i had spit on my window and my gas gauge rose from less then 1/4 tank to 1/4 even, car started and ran extremely rough, flooring it to a gated parking lot only 100 feet away got me going only 1 mph then it sputtered and died 30 feet short of the gate, now it wont start. on top of that it died in a tow zone. so i left a note telling them to contact the office and for the car not to be towed. so.. i guess now i need to know how to drain my fuel tank. im so pissed off right now, revenge will be sought dearly. mark my words. atleast the car started right up, belts checked out ok too nynor, didnt see if they were spinning during cranking but they are there and in 1 piece.

not quite my day.. i think im gonna go to bed i feel sick.

this should be in a sitcom or something, how could things not get worse? ok well my belts could snap, or it could get stolen and.. wait no it couldnt it wont run haha.. sorry trying to cheer myself up. nynor you wanna give me a hand on saturday draining my tank? that is if my car does not get towed, but if it does atleast i know its safe somewhere. i hate v-8 owners.. we have what they will never have, handling.

sorry philly, i am scheduled at work this saturday. what makes you think you need to drain your tank? did i miss something?

His gas tank rose in levels which means someone added something to it. I would suggest that you get a rope and a friends car and pull it gently to safety....if it's a manual transmission. Then deal with it when you have time.

Razorback - I noticed in your photo that you have a hose connecting the air filter box to the belt covers. Porsche issued a TSB for these cars deleting that hose and putting caps on the airbox and belt cover.

jwade...thanks. I just bought the car not too long ago and I'm currently going through it to put it back to as close to new as possible and I haven't done much with the engine yet. I didn't know about the TSB on that, so that is very helpful information. Do you know why they decided to remove that hose?

are we being a little paranoid here? my fuel guage jumps all over the place.