944 cylinder liners

[Sweeny Todd]

Howdy,

Does anyone know if you can put sleeves in a 944 block? Anyone seen it done anywhere?

Hal

[Razorback1980]

Yes, that can and has been done.

[JivenJim]

Company outta LA does. http://www.cpperformance.com/ cool stuff. Then you could stick in some JE pistons or something..

[Sweeny Todd]

Thx

Hal

[JivenJim]

Another I think called Darlington. Search the Turbo Site for better Sleeve talk. They Bore and Sleeve and sometimes Stroke.

[nynor]

MID sleeving is the way to go, in my opinion.

[Sweeny Todd]

What is MID sleeving?

H

[nynor]

do a search in the turbo section. i think there are some pictures.

modular something something. they take you block, machine the existing cylinders completely gone, insert replaceable cylinders into the block, and voile! you can then get a matching set of pistons to make an 2.7 liter engine, if that's what you want, at practically any compression ratio.

try this:

http://www.cdpautomachine.com/ecatalog/darton_porsche.html

[NEMESIS924]

Go straight to the source...Darton Sleeves

That is who makes the Modular Integrated Deck (MID) sleeves. That is what everyone uses on the 944/968.

[Sweeny Todd]

Do any of you guys know if it's legal in Spec944?

It looks pretty invasive - almost like a new block inside a block.


H

[Mike B]

I'm sure Chris White can help you out.

http://www.944enhancement.com/index.html

[nynor]

invasive?! and sleeving isn't? i can't wait till i score a cylinder and can justify the expense to have mine done... 2.7 liter turbo madness here i come!

darton is claiming crazy boost, 20 pounds and higher, because the cylinders can take it, they don't 'walk' like stock cylinders do, and the head gasket seals better... anyone here want reliable 400 HP, plus?

[Zero10]

I thought if you went with stock bore sizes that you were fine for spec racing? Of course, you might need to still run stock pistons as well.
That said, how do they go about checking that? I mean, if you ran 106mm bores instead of 100, how could they tell?...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Reeves Callaway did this back in 1983-84 with his Callaway conversions. It was far simpler (and less expensive) to get 8.0:1 c/r pistons made in the U.S. at that time that were for use in steel bores, not alusil bores.

I'll probably end up going with a steel-sleeved block with about 8.5:1 c/r pistons, bored over and a 3.0L crank. Should give me about 3.1L give or take. It won't be 100% authentic Callaway (which were 100mm bores, retaining the 2.5L displacement), but it'll sure go like a raped ape under 18 psi of boost!

I've got other things to do first, but that's the plan anyway.

Alternatively I could always plug in 951 pistons without sleeving, but that's so unsporting. . .

[Razorback1980]

Anyone know the price of putting in these sleeves?

[nynor]

the cost was listed in the page link i provided, above. i think it was about $1500 with the new cylinders bored, pistons to fit, and rings.

[Sweeny Todd]

Originally posted by Zero10
I thought if you went with stock bore sizes that you were fine for spec racing? Of course, you might need to still run stock pistons as well.
That said, how do they go about checking that? I mean, if you ran 106mm bores instead of 100, how could they tell?...

Well. Mostly, you'd just be a lot faster than everyone else and eventually you'd get caught in a random tear-down inspection at impound.



If you're not faster then, well, I dunno. I suppose it doesn't matter.

H

[Zero10]

Originally posted by Sweeny Todd
Well. Mostly, you'd just be a lot faster than everyone else and eventually you'd get caught in a random tear-down inspection at impound.



If you're not faster then, well, I dunno. I suppose it doesn't matter.

H

Do they seriously tear your engine down to check?... That is scary!

[Razorback1980]

They do in most racing motorsports in the US. In NASCAR, they look them over before the race as well as the end. Same in NHRA. They check your car previous to the race, check your fuel between each run for the right mixtures, yada yada yada...if you are consistently faster than everyone, they tear them down at the end of the race and you may not get your car back for a few days while they look everything over. If any of the competitors thinks you are outside the rules, they can request a tear down on not just the engine but any part of the car...of course if you are legit, they have to pay for the rebuild.

[lateapex911]

First, lets just assume nobody would even want to run an illegal bore, (or whatever) in club racing. Club racing is diffferent in nearly every sanctioning body than Pro Racing.

I pro racing, the sanctioning body is responsible for determining a teams legality. They can do pretty much whatever they please to do so.

In club racing, the competitors are tasked with an honor sysptem. If they choose to go outside that and cheat, the other competitors job is to file a protest. Each sanctioning body varies on the specific procedure, but in very rough terms, you meet with the protest stewards when you write your protest, and decide on what rule is being broken, how the protest will be written, and what proof you will accept that the car is legal, or not. Then, the protestee is met with, and via the Stewards, a protest bond is set that is agreeable to all parties. Obviously that varies depending on the protest, but for a bore protest, it would need to cover the expense of the head removal, time and materials. Dependig on the car and the complexity, that could be anywhere from $500 to ????.

At that point the car is taken to a nuetral area, and the stewards observe the process, and make a judgement.

If illegal, the bond (less a fee, ussually) goes back to the protester. If legal, the protester loses the bond, and the fees.

It's rarely a simple process, LOL.