Thinking about getting 944 to race

[needcash]

but i have a few questions.

First. Im looking for a CHEAP way to get out and race (not auto cross BTW). So a few cars came to mind (C4 vette, fbod, fox bod stang, miatas, and the 944). Im 6'3"s and couldnt fit in the miata so thats out vettes are kinda spendy, same with turbo 944s, and im not really a ford guy but havnt ruled out the stang yet.

BTW im in minnesota if it matters

A) What associations have classes for the 944?

B) Are there classes for stock N/A 944s? waht others?

C) about how many races are there a year?

D) I said CHEAP, so is a $3k N/A 944 genereally gonna last a bit? I dont want to repair things right from the start...


anything else?

[Rick V]

Before you even think about tracking a 44 there are a few things that must be addressed. You already know about the belts, and rollers and things. Think about deleting the balance shafts if for the track only. You will also have to pull the oilpan and repair/replace the baffle, and replace the lower end bearings. The cost of this can be somewhat offset by selling off all the parts you will be removing from the car, seats,ac ect. The rubber centered clutch (if still installed) will have to be yanked and replaced with a sprung hub unit. 10 grand will have you ready for a season of light racing. Brakes, cage,tires............whole lot of subjects to touch on.
You can start with an 8valve car since the parts are fewer and cheeper than an S, and the cars are easier to find/buy.
Good luck and keep us updated as to what you do.

[Razorback1980]

Check with your local PCA and they should have a list of events in your area...also any local tracks. I know I just received a notice from Texas World Speedway about coming to the track for a couple days in the mail. The 944 has a good solid engine, but as Rick already stated, you don't want to take it to the track without modifying the oilpan or you will spin #2 rod bearing..eventually. I think Rick covered most of the rest of the questions quite well.

[924Sman]

PCA Has several stages of classification from bone stock to full race set up. Classes I and GT4. Also in PCA is NASA has SP1, 2 and 3 spec classes. Basically the same w/differences.

GTS series has a class or 2.

PCA has somewhere close to 35 races a year, pick one or all.

Now your user name will be perfect. Needcash is the main item all racers have. Never enough money!

3 grand will get you a stock car. Add a minimum of another 3 grand and you will have a track ready car but not the fastest one. Add another 3 and get a weeee bit of power. And and on and on.

Dal

[Rick V]

You have another option, a 914. I am 6-4 and I fit in one. You can pick up a solid 2.0, carbed for a good price. If you have never driven a 914 don't knock it until you have tried it. They handle great and are easy to work on. Not the fastest things on the track but, if you are a good enough drive they will know you are there. Just a thought

[924Sman]

Originally posted by Rick V
You have another option, a 914. I am 6-4 and I fit in one. You can pick up a solid 2.0, carbed for a good price. If you have never driven a 914 don't knock it until you have tried it. They handle great and are easy to work on. Not the fastest things on the track but, if you are a good enough drive they will know you are there. Just a thought

A little more credit to the 914...Power is available and a screamer of a car if done correctly$$$. Tim McKenzie drives a 914 in PCA w/3.0L case and a mess of other mods and he absolutely kicks major behind. Wonderful handling car, low and wide. For likewise investment a 914 can be a real racer!!

Dal

[Jsilverman]

There is saying youll hear around here. There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. Youll wither spend more money buying it, or more money fixing it. For $3k the car will probably need some work. THen youll have to add safety gear (I spent $2700 on seats, 4 pt roll bar, harnesses and install, and Im still not legal to race) If possible buy a prebuilt car. It will save you money.

As far as where you can race NASA has a few 944 specific classes. 944 spec is a low cost series with limited modifications. 944 cup is the same idea with more allowances for suspension/wheels/tires. PCA runs the same classes (SP1=spec SP2=cup)

[ronbo456]

If you go with the 944 make sure you get a seat with good mounting hardware. When my '86 was stock I was grazing the headliner with my helmet and I'm only 6'0". With the racing seat installed I have plenty of room but it still might be tight for you.

Three other things: First, if you are new to this (like I am), get some knowledgeable help in finding, upgrading and setting up your car. I spent $$$ on my suspension and $0 on the engine and exhaust because more experienced people gave me good advice.

Second, get an 8-valve car. My 86 w/upgrades cost me the same as a stock S2. Also, when I race I will be in a much tamer class.

Third, safety first. Not just rotors, pads and tires, but full cage, HANS, steel brake lines, fire system, etc.

[924Sman]

Ron touched on a real excellent point. The best modification is gained from seat time. All the mods in the world are of little use unless the driver is able to fully utilize them. As did Ron, I only went for a suspension upgrade then added mods as I progressed as a driver and also allows for one to save up for the next mod in store.

First issue is to pick a car/class then get seat time followed by mods appropriate to the class.

Dal

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Do NOT delete the balance shafts.

The performance gain is negligible and the ensuing sealing issues and stuff breaking/getting fatigued will drive you nuts. I've heard this from no less than four different race guys.

[Techno Duck]

Also increased chance of cracking the oil pickup tube...which will result in a spun rod bearing.

[jwade944]

You don't say what your experience level is, so I will assume you are new to this whole idea. If not, I apologize. If you are going to start by going to driver ed events, then a basic 944 plus a fire extinguisher and helmet may work for you. ($3000 to $5000) You can gradually upgrade the car to meet your needs until you are ready to race it. There is a lot of information on the web about what to look for when buying a 944 and you should heed the experience of those who have gone before you. Another route is to buy a car that has already been prepared. ($8000 to $20000) You still need to be aware of the typical 944 issues. This may be a cheaper route overall - as long as the modifications that have been done were well executed and match your needs. Once the car is set up as a dedicated race car, you will need a trailer and tow vehicle as well as a place to store these. I have raced a 924S (PCA Class I stock) for seven years. I bought my car with some modifications, started driver education and then added items as I needed. The cost of the car and upgrades was pretty moderate, but that is really a small part of the cost of racing. A typical race weekend averages about $1000 for travel, entry fees, tires, maintenance, etc. (I do my own work on the car and I race 4 to 5 times a year with 2 sets of tires per year.) You won't find me on the podium very often, but the car is not the limiting factor. Over the years, the initial cost of the car is a very small part of the cost to race. There is no such thing as CHEAP racing, but I have no regrets about my car choice nor the money I have spent.

[ronbo456]

Originally posted by jwade944
Another route is to buy a car that has already been prepared. ($8000 to $20000) .... This may be a cheaper route overall - as long as the modifications that have been done were well executed and match your needs.

It's probably a lot cheaper to buy a car that's already been done, but I decided to start with a stock car because

• I wanted to start with fresh components
• Recent rule changes meant that I'd probably have to change some things anyway
• I didn't want to compromise on choice of components
• I wanted one person to be accountable for preparing the car - no blaming the last guy
• I'm an idiot

I'm actually glad I did it this way. I learned a lot about my car and about cars in general. Plus I have trackside support that wouldn't be available to me otherwise.

[gohan]

Originally posted by ronbo456
I spent $$$ on my suspension and $0 on the engine and exhaust because more experienced people told me gave me good advice.

Another new comer to the Cup with a $5K suspension set! How can you say that is the right advices?

[ronbo456]

Originally posted by gohan
Another new comer to the Cup with a $5K suspension set! How can you say that is the right advices?

Well ... if you're really asking, the rationale is that I now have a car that lets me focus solely on becoming a better driver. I can't blame the car if I'm slow and I won't have to credit the car when I get faster. The advice I got was to take the car out of the equation as much as possible, and I continue to think that was the right advice.

Or did I miss your point?

[gohan]

Originally posted by ronbo456
I can't blame the car if I'm slow and I won't have to credit the car when I get faster. The advice I got was to take the car out of the equation as much as possible

Isn't that mean you need to be at the max prep level, or max mod allowed, for a class? Then, you need to spend $$$, not $0, to engine like suspension, actually and to others?

[ronbo456]

Originally posted by gohan
Isn't that mean you need to be at the max prep level, or max mod allowed, for a class? Then, you need to spend $$$, not $0, to engine like suspension, actually and to others?

Not in SP2/944 Cup. There isn't much you are allowed to do with the engine, and upgrading the exhaust system doesn't add that much, especially given the cost (maybe straight pipes, not sure if that's class legal).

As I understand it, the strategy most people use is "lighten and tighten" - get rid of as much weight (esp. unsprung weight) as possible and upgrade the suspension as much as possible.

[gohan]

A) What associations have classes for the 944?

PCA -> H, I, SP1, SP2 or GT
SCCA -> ITS or Production
NASA -> Cup or Spec
EMRA -> PC or ST

B) Are there classes for stock N/A 944s? waht others?

stock and some modification depending on the class you chose

C) about how many races are there a year?

you can find 2~3 race weekends per month from April to Oct.

D) I said CHEAP, so is a $3k N/A 944 genereally gonna last a bit? I dont want to repair things right from the start...

I doubt it, but may be possible?

[SolReaver]

3K may not work. It is possible you can find a 944 or a 924S (my pref) that has faded paint and a bad interior, but unless you can do your own work it is really hard to expect that you will have a trackable vehicle for that amount.

If you don't want to repair things from the start, you are not going to get it cheap. However, there are lots of these vehicles that stopped running long ago and have languished. If you are willing to do Clutch, Tmng Belts, etc.. And don't care about the paint or interior, well you have come to the right place!

Please get proper training and use all safety equipment. Porsches are reasonably safe vehicles, however, the laws of physics apply.

Frequent the racing crowd and see if anyone wants to part with thier old racer. These vehicles are usually so stripped and moded they cannot even be considered for regular use and therefore sell for less. I have seen great deals on 928s 944s and others that have been converted (it is a one way conversion) of course a few seasons of track use can be hard on a car and you know these things are beat.

This is a rich mans sport. you may want a lower level entry like a (forgive the blasphemy) ricer to beat on and learn to drive. Ricers can be had on the cheap and if you wreck it....who cares? (as long as you are OK, that is)

Have you tried a Racing School? Some of em supply you with thier cars to drive. What a great idea!

[Dave L]

Originally posted by SolReaver


This is a rich mans sport. you may want a lower level entry like a (forgive the blasphemy) ricer to beat on and learn to drive. Ricers can be had on the cheap and if you wreck it....who cares? (as long as you are OK, that is)

I think this is a really really good idea. There is nothing wrong with Civic race car, They will be very cheap to buy, handle reasonable well and parts are a dime a dozen. A BMW e30 may be another place to look as well.