Yet another starter question

[The Chief]

I did a search of the threads and didn't find an answer for this.

Car cranks and starts "normally" for the most part, but on occasion, it seems that the solenoid is "kicking" the bendix drive away from the ring gear before the car starts, making one awful noise. I wait a few seconds, and it starts "normally."

This has increased in frequency over the past month, occuring twice in the past week. Bad mounting? Bad solenoid? Loose connections? I don't think the ignition switch is bad, but at this juncture don't want to rule anything out.

Ideas, please? I appreciate your input

[SoCal Driver]

Clean the positive battery connections. Pay close attention to the ten gauge red wires. If you have one of the after market terminals that clamps rather than solders the large cable replace it with the correct terminal cable.

Check and clean the ground connections between the battery and the chassis and the chassis and the engine.

Check and clean the connections on the solenoid for both the large cable and the wire from the ignition switch that activates the solenoid. Note that the exposed woven cable between the solenoid and the starter body is NOT a ground. It is the path for the current from the solenoid to the starter windings.

[HondaDustR]

OMG. My car has been doing that randomly ever since I got it and it drives me nuts! I've cleaned everything. I even tried shimming the bendix up to try to delay the starter switch untill the gears meet. The only thing I haven't done is getting rid of the cheezy clamped battery connectors. Hopefully that would fix it. Finding out what would fix this would be awesome.

[onZedge]

IF the repaired battery connections don't fix it, consider this:
The 924S starter (and I believe the 944 also) is a Permanent Magnet Planetary Gear Reduction, or PMPGR type starter. I recently replaced my starter because it failed to turn due to the planetary gears being messed up. Would have been a cool "failure mode" picture but, I didn't have a digital camera at the time. It popped the 200A breaker on the tester on cue. I originally thought it was a dead spot in the winding or iffy solenoid contacts. Advance had a reman with lifetime warranty for about $120 exchange.

[HondaDustR]

That's got to be it, since if that sound was comming from the pinion and ring gear teeth grinding, the pinion would look chewed, which it doesn't. I had a feeling there was some kind of gear reduction inside. Maybe I'll try to figure out how to get it apart to confirm that theory. But when it does work, it cranks perfectly normally, so I don't know... It has been defying logic for months...

[sayporsha]

I have a good starter from an 87 944 Turbo if you need one. PM me if interested.

[toolboy62]

Does anyone sell DIY brush 'n' bearing kits for these? The one in my car has a sticky bendix and if I have to take it out I might as well refresh it.

...or is that just not done in Porsche-land?

I guess the same question goes for alternators, as I acquired a spare alternator (and another starter as well) just in case.

thanks,

nate

[HondaDustR]

Originally posted by toolboy62
Does anyone sell DIY brush 'n' bearing kits for these? The one in my car has a sticky bendix and if I have to take it out I might as well refresh it.

...or is that just not done in Porsche-land?

I guess the same question goes for alternators, as I acquired a spare alternator (and another starter as well) just in case.

thanks,

nate

Just take it apart, spray it down with solvent, and grease the bearings and bendix plunger. It's a piece of cake, unless the brushes are totally shot.

[The Chief]

Cables and such are nice, clean, and tight...

Now, I am a pretty hefty boy, and when I put a wrench on things, they tend to move...

What is the deal with the starter mounting bolts??? The rear one is no problem, it popped right out, but I am almost afraid I may shear the head right off the front one. It is a fairly large head (19mm); this thing isn't "reverse-threaded," is it?

In the Navy we used "two s**ts and an M-Fer" when no torque was specified...now I think I know where THAT came from!

[Razorback1980]

The starter drive has a one way clutch in it so that when the engine starts, it doesn't spin the starter as fast as the engine turns. The one way clutch is giving out and the starter drive needs to be replaced. Eventually, it will totally give out the starter will stop working altogether. There are many starter rebuild places that sell parts for your starter..either find one of those or get a rebuilt one.

[The Chief]

Thanks, guys :-) Out it comes....

[The Chief]

Ok, the humor has been exhausted...

What am I missing, here? I am almost to the point of taking a die grinder to the front lower starter bolt to remove it. We have a "little" motion out of it, but practically lift the car off the jackstands to get any motion at all in loosening it up. Would an impact wrench be out of the question (the starter is being replaced, anyway)? I am starting to go into withdrawal, and stuck driving a beat up pickup truck while my ride sits on blocks.

[SoCal Driver]

If you can get a decent angle on it hit the head as hard as you can with a very large hammer. Repeat as necessary.

You have to clear the threads of the bolt if you can't get a good angle at it to drill the bolt stub out -- after you grind off the head.

[Eldorado]

funny... mine just started doing this too about once every week or so.

[callmethewander]

me too!!!

[SoCal Driver]

Bad Karma!!!