84' Idle Issue
 

Hi, new guy here. I am NOT mechanic at all.
I did just read another post about a members idle issues.
my problem may be similar but will post anyway.

starts fine. i typicly have to keep the peddle pressed to keep the car running to warm it up. after driving it a bit it will hold a normal idle for a short time then start fluctuating or stall. some times it will idle ok at a stop light, other times it will just die on me. there is a smell of fuel (rich) when warming the car up and im sure its there when im driving but just may not notice becouse im moving.

i have checked the vacume lines and they do seem to look ok. im sure the car can use a tune up which may help.

I have heard all kinds of solutions from idle stableizer to DME. i really need to track this down soon and with little expense. i have been buying parts that dont fix anything. could this be a timing issue?

suggestions would be very helpful. thanks in advance. happy holidays.

welcome to the board, matt. i don't have alot of experience with idle problems..... but i'm sure you will get the help you need. this is a great group of people.

happy new year.....

Welcome to the forum. Check out clarks-garage.com for more information on your car than you will find assembled in any other place. Also use the search feature as you are not going to be the first one with this problem. Make sure you find someone with an 83 to 85/1 car as those cars have minor differences than the later cars. What city do you live in....headed up your way tomorrow for a couple days.

Timing is set by the computer and is not adjustable so that is not it. The problem is probably a vacuum issue. There are many vacuum lines and they are everywhere including under the intake manifold which are the ones that are hard to see. You have an early car which doesn't have an idle control valve but something similar. There are a couple other things it could be but check all vacuum lines first.

thanks
 

Thanks Steve. Tom, im in Fayetteville. Home of the Razorbacks.

matt, i sent you a couple pm's. tom, would bad ground contribute?

After reading some posts i decided to check all grounds in the morning. Thanks steve for the map. this car has some rust and corrosion so ground points may be a very good start. still doesnt explain the fuel smell... or does it? who knows. i'll check it all out tomarow.

No, probably not the grounds, but they probably need to be cleaned anyway. Probably a vacuum issue. But could also be a idle bypass valve or throttle position switch but I would start with the vacuum lines. They are cheap to replace and that is probably the problem.

I've heard of that town. It will probably surprise you that I went to college there and graduated in 1980! :-) I grew up in a town called Decatur about 40 miles north. I'm headed up to Ft. Smith for a couple days to see my son. I have a busy trip scheduled or I would stop by and take a look with you. Let's see where we get with the forum and how my time looks when I get there.

No ISV on your model only late models. You should not have to touch the gas pedal to start or keep running. Most likely you are having the common shudder issue on the early DME, try a search on that problem.

You mentioned the vacuum checks out but did you look under the J boot(large black ribbed hose) attached to the airflow meter? Look under it and check the port for a crack. This port will be apprx the size of a nickel and a steel tube inside it. That area is famous for cracks. Also check the 2 large ports on the same boot. One to the throttle body the other to the AFM, this area also develops cracks under the steel hose clamps. It will be best to remove the J boot entirely to see any cracks.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1198687703.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1198687762.jpg

Diagrams to follow vacuum lines in case you do not have these for you to go by.

May have a throttle body leak too, only way to see that is to dismantle it and rebuild it with a kit....20 bucks USD or so.

Start there then if no success report back and we can move further, no sense giving you a ton of possibilities to add to the confusion!:)

Dal

If those don't cut it here is the rest of the story....

Fuel pump and check valve
damper and fuel regulator
bad intake gasket or loose intake mounting
leaking/clogged injectors
bad head gasket or about to fail completely

Dal

wow. ok just checked the lines again. really they do look in good shape. dont have a j boot. the kid who had this put on some after market filter. i would like to replce it with all origional air system if anyone has one for sale. cheap. i purchased a DME and a throttle body off ebay.
I will probly swap those out just to cure my curiosity and to rule that stuff out.
im adding a pic of what im working with. This engine is dirty. it was owned by a 19 year old. When something stopped working, he by passed it. the glob of wires are to the fogs and to headlights.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...y/SANY0866.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...y/SANY0868.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...y/SANY0870.jpg

What DME year is the one you bought, better be an early one or you will need the AFM in addition then a wire harness to connect a idle stabilization valve. No connector on the early harness is why.

AFM/DME Must be the same year and or model....late DME late AFM...early/early.

To convert to stock, look at the diagrams and determine what you don't have on the intake system now and pick those items up. You obviously need a J Boot and airbox.

To fix the shudder issue it is EZ if you go late DME/AFM than to use an adapter board. Try a search or ask the membership if anyone has a early 944 FR Wilk shudder adapter board. This item contains a "code" to solve the shudder.

Dal

it was an 84 DME. it was .99 cents + 10.00 shipping

You have the J boot. Look under it! See that corregated rubber hose in the shape of a "J" under it is a nickel sized port.

Is# 0 261 200 015 01 the DME # you bought?

Dalhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1198692103.jpg

should receive it today or tomarrow.

correction, it was the MAF. my bad. same # as what is on there now. I was told to replace it and see what happens. DME may need to be next..... when i find it.

Looked under the J and it all looks good.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...y/SANY0872.jpg

What a steal my friend!!!! That is what I call "frugal" shopping, now your next purchase better be a 944 for 2 bucks or I will be disapointed!;)

Dal

Hate to say this but you will not be able to see any cracks from there. The rubber is flexible and you need to remove the line into the port then inspect the rubber by movement to see any cracks. It only takes a small one. The other thing I see is the gap on the left side of the port, could be seeping through.

Yep the new AFM not MAF, Airflow meter-Mass airflow sensor may be an issue but my money is on or to be exact, inside the DME/ECU....the famous 944 shudder and your symptoms reek of that common issue.

Dal

ok. i hadnt pulled it all off becouse i have to run around a bit. about an hour or so i should be back and i'll pull the J boot. anyone got an extra DME

We can tell if the DME has been refitted w/ the shudder fix(adapter board). Remove the computer according to the Clark manual and remove the outer tin cover and get a picture. Post it and I can tell if you have a refitted board. The chip should be black 24pin IIRC and has a silver label on it. If the chip has a gold label we are dealing w/an aftermarket chip, most likely FRWilk eprom.

Don't buy anything yet. Let's try to get this nailed down first then spend some cash, sound like a good gameplan to you?!

Dal

where is the DME?

Dal, i remember on my first 944 working on it... it wouldn't start without the airbox on it, but with it on, it ran like a champ. is that the case with all early 944's.. and if so, could his current setup be a problem?

thanks

scratch that. i just found it above my toes

Should be under the dash on the passenger side IIRC if not it is directly above your knees under the dash. Apprx a 9x9 silver box w/Motronic embossed on the cover.

Dal

the dme is under the steering wheel by the fuse panel...

is anything going to happen or reset or something if i remove this? should i wait untill i run my arrands?

Steve....No....You can run w/o the box entirely provided one does not mind dirty air getting into the engine.:) In your case perhaps it was a AFM issue sucking in too much air throwing the values?DME off, once the box was back on the airflow was reduced to a normal flow. But I run mine w/o during diagnostic runs.

Dal

FF.....Nope pull it, just have the power off and it would be a safe thing to disconect the neg battery cable but not a must.

Dal

k im gonna have to run to my parents place around the corner. i dont have that size socket. im taking my laptop and camera with me.

Phillips and/8 and/or10 mm should do it, but you can try 1/4 or 3/8ths SAE

Dal

http://www.pelicanparts.com/PartsLookup/HTML/944_USA_82_85_KATALOG/901-05-Frame4.htm

ok. um.... i have to thank averyone for helping me but the sleet is coming down a little to heavy right now for me to tackle this. it's ass chapping cold and the driveway is colder. I will try to pull this and get a pic of the innerds when it gets a bit warmer or at least dryer.

No hurry Matt, we are always "on duty"!

Dal

lol, so lets talk sun roof. i cant seem to open, close or remove. i know about turning the key to the 1st position... lalala.

This thing is stuck in a partial up position. i do hear the motor working and can hear the roof slightly moving but nothing more. the arms at the rear of the sunroof dont seem to want to "stretch out".

the sun roof is up about 1/2 inch and siliconed to avoid rain. is this a gear? where is that gear?
Steve suggested i pull the liner from the ceiling but it does not allow me acess.

Sunroof gear aka Pinion gear.....located on the motor drive which IIRC is in the side panel under the B pillar. Turn the roof on and listen for the motor on the right side IIRC.

The late and or 924S/968 and S models have 2 gears which is where Steve is thinking under the roof liner. You have the expensive one on the drive itself.
Dal

ok, back to th DME

I PULLED it and removed screws. all i can see is a curcuit board. i wasnt able to remove it due to my screw driver being to thick.

i did take a pic. i found a discoloration on most of the board. i dont think that it is normal.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...y/SANY0874.jpg

matt, i have a spare dme that you can borrow if need be.

that would be nice. it would be a great way to narrow it down a bit.

i'll get it out.....

pm'd you

cool. thanks. now the pic to me looks like i may have found the problem. i dont have another to compare with but it doesnt look good

Does the box tabs look like they have been bent open before?....no, then put the cover on and wait for Steve's spare unit to arrive. Screws do not look like they have been backed out either, at least from the pic, but if they look like they have been backed out we know it was opened but the reason is yet to be determined, chipped would be my guess. Get the correct screwdriver!:)

Dal