Down-shift nightmares for first timer!

[84944]

Hey Folks,
Always wanted a 944 'first edition' since I first layed eyes on her. So I couldn't help but jump on a '84 944 that looked to be in pristine condition and due to a few vultures that were about to land on it for $2000 I had to toss in my money without being able to inspect, other than a quick run around the lot. Well now I might have found the reason for this gentleman trading in his beautiful 944 that he pampered for 23 years for a lousy two grand...
Driving home at a very moderate pace, I went into an on-ramp and down-shifted to third, as I released the clutch the rear-end shuttered and vibrated like the rear wheels were actually hopping so I immediately re-clutched and coasted through the turn. After receiving that mild heart attack I decided to gently down-shift to the traffic light, and sure enough it returned at a slow 30mph down-shift. I have not done this since, as I'm afraid of blowing something up. Does anyone have a guess, before a mechanic begins to explain why he'll require my first born son to repair this glitch in my 944?

[firefighter7128]

i feel your pain. i bout a $15.00 944 for $2000. no where nere prestine looking.
im no machanic, but you may check your sway bar bushings. cheap and easy fix.

[Techno Duck]

Are you rev matching on the downshift or slipping the clutch?

[robm-951]

I know this may sound strange, but check the exhaust system. Especially check the mount in the middle of the torque tube.

My nephew had a car that did this and while researching potential problems I came across a few others with the same symptoms and it was traced back to the exhaust system.

If the middle mount is broken or missing, the exhaust system must resonate, flex in the middle, and hit the torque tube/body.

Good luck,
Rob

[white944cup]

Sounds to me like you either have a rubber centered clutch disc that is partially separated (and ready to break), an extremely weak pressure plate, or a warped flywheel. If you are going to downshift, you definitely need to blip the throttle to match the engine rpms to the gear....take it easy until you figure out what is wrong.

[Z-man]

My bet is the rubber-centered clutch hub is shot. What you describe is typical when this dampener has deteriorated beyond tolerable levels.

The solution is simple, but expensive -- time to upgrade to a spring centered clutch disc like the ones found on the 944 Turbo's. Cost: $1500.00 to $2000.00, depending on what else is found during the operation....

If your raise the car up, you should see a rubber plate on the forward side of the transaxle. Open this, and you should be able to reach in there and grab hold of the rod connecting the transaxle to the clutch. If you can move it up and down, side to side, then your clutch hub is shot and needs to be replaced. This is a very common failure on the non-turbo 944's, btw. Fix it NOW before you kill the rest of the driveline.

Also: why are you downshifting? Never, EVER downshift, especially to slow the car down. Brakes should be used to do that -- not the transmission. (Brake pads are far cheaper than clutches and transmissions...)

-Z-man.

[speedracing944]

practice and master the heal-toe downshift.

Does the clutch chatter when you are releasing it when taking off from a stand still?

Welcome to Pelican

Speedy

[Razorback1980]

I agree with white944cup and Z-man..probably the clutch. If you can fix it yourself, then it won't be that bad...if not, it will cost some but you'll have a great car after that. Sometimes you will see small pieces of rubber around the bell housing. I see you and I have the same taste...I've love the look of the 944 since it came out and even today, I think it is an awesome looking car. Good luck and let us know if we can help you.

[84944]

Although after many (the better part of forty) years of sport and rally driving in a few Canadian clubs over the years I must say with a great deal of respect for everyone's unique driving expertise and advice, that I have been going into corners of every type, at various degees of speed and attitude on pavement and dirt a thousand times.. and I must admit to my weakness of never being able to go into a corner in a clutched or neutral manouver under braking and steering only, with any great degree of total control, which is why I prefer to drive a manual transmission. That being said I must admit to being "old school" and I am sure there are sport driving techniques that have since proven superior to my old skills of the '60s and '70s. Most importantly, thank you guys for the warm welcome to the 'club' and I have some great advice to check out when she goes on the hoist tomorrow. Thanks all! (I will follow up on the result if anyone wants to know if they guessed it right!)

[88BlueTSiQuest]

Consider this...... If the car is truly pristine as you said, and the ONLY thing it needs is a clutch, DIY and you only end up with a $2500 car, which is a darn good price for a good early car, so you still didn't do too bad.

The next issue though is, when were the belts last done?

[keith951]

When you figure out whats going on let me know.. I have a 951 clutch with plunty of meat left you can have cheap.. and a brand new pressure plate.

Where are you located? Im sure people around the area could come check it out when its on the lift and help you determine whats going on.

-Keith

[BeerBurner]

Mine does that every now and then when I really botch a blip on a downshift into second gear. It's been doing that for years and it's made more terrifying by the fact that my rear hatch needs to be adjusted so it vibrates as well.

Personally, I don't worry about it.

BB.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by 84944

Although after many (the better part of forty) years of sport and rally driving in a few Canadian clubs over the years I must say with a great deal of respect for everyone's unique driving expertise and advice, that I have been going into corners of every type, at various degees of speed and attitude on pavement and dirt a thousand times.. and I must admit to my weakness of never being able to go into a corner in a clutched or neutral manouver under braking and steering only, with any great degree of total control, which is why I prefer to drive a manual transmission.

Sorry, there's another type of transmission?

That being said I must admit to being "old school" and I am sure there are sport driving techniques that have since proven superior to my old skills of the '60s and '70s.

I'm not so sure about that. I've seen many people in the land of auto transmissions and barely any corners with some extremely odd ideas about how to drive stick...

I do agree with what I think Z-Man meant to say - e.g. not slamming into a lower gear to slow down using the motor, but I think there's a communication breakdown, as what he actually said was "Never, EVER downshift". Logic tells me he didn't mean that... LOL.

Vic Elford says that, as you brake for a corner, you speed-match and downshift (either before turning in, or, as a more advanced technique, blending the two maneouvres into one), and ideally simultaneously, e.g. with heel'n'toe, so there's no "wasted" braking space whilst you change gear.

This is so you are always in the correct gear for the speed you're at- and thus have the ability to open the throttle and drive through anytime the opportunity presents.

Good luck with the clutch! You might want to look and see if there's anything else you can leverage at the same that needs doing "while you're in there"...

I bought a 944 with no records (that seemed genrally quite well cared for), and the clutch was just under half-worn. I drove and maintained it for over 3 years and sold it to a buddy with 168,000 miles on it, and the clutch just disintegrated on the freeway about two weeks later...

Yup, it was rubber-centered. Yup, it was probably the original clutch...

[2Tight]

Originally Posted by keith951

When you figure out whats going on let me know.. I have a 951 clutch with plunty of meat left you can have cheap.. and a brand new pressure plate.

Keith a 951 clutch assembly wont fit an NA. Different bellhousing, starter mount position, flywheel, 240mm vs. 225mm clutch. He could buy the whole parts package though if you have it.

[keith951]

Nope just have an extra clutch and pressure plate.. Im getting a parts 84 NA tommorrow but whatever is in that is probably already beat. If I was going to take the time to take it apart I would buy new stuff.

-Keith

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by spuggy

I do agree with what I think Z-Man meant to say - e.g. not slamming into a lower gear to slow down using the motor, but I think there's a communication breakdown, as what he actually said was "Never, EVER downshift". Logic tells me he didn't mean that... LOL.

Yep -- sorry for being unclear. One should never downshift for the sole purpose of slowing the car down -- a proper downshift actually will not change the decellerating attitude of the car at all. A heel-toe-downshift enables the driver to get the car into a lower gear while he is braking (using his brakes) as he approaches a corner.

Sorry for the confusion...
-Z-man.

[svandamme]

and there's the difference between US and Europe
here every drivers school will teach you to use engine braking...

and i haven't ever blow a clutch in any of my cars so far...

[84944]

Thanks "spuggy" for a great commentary that was enjoyable reading, and simply quite close to my own philosophy. Thanks Keith but I'm with 88 in feeling quite content that for the money I paid for this little dream car, I think I'll go the distance and have the complete clutch kit installed to keep this car as beautiful as the rest of it is. A few people may disagree with me, but this car is worth far more than any of the classic cars I was originally considering for 4 times the money. Being in the unique/classic auto business for a couple of decades has given me a pretty fair look at the industry and I can say without hesitation that if you own a 944 (any series) you are probably about to roll into the 25 year classic automobile classification and that is amazing considering the current selling price on these cars right now. You couldn't buy a domestic boat anchor that's over 25 years old that might still run for under 5 or 6 grand. Hang on to these 944s guys, they're gonna be a sought after hot-rod within a few years!
... and thanks for clearing that up Z-man. Cheers.

[martin944]

FYI, I just had the clutch replaced on my 87 944S. The mileage is at 101000. repair cost me about $2000.

[mlue]

Originally Posted by 84944

Although after many (the better part of forty) years of sport and rally driving in a few Canadian clubs over the years

Welcome to the Pelican Forum.

Canadian eh! Where are you located? There are quite a few Canadians on the board.