is this the right list of parts for front end service?

Eldorado · 04-15-2008, 07:22 AM

hey guys, time to do my front engine service.
I'm paranoid. And not because of the work, but because I have no idea what to buy! lol

I know there are two styles of waterpump.. and I know that with the newer pump you need a belt guard or something... and i know you need all the belts, rollers, and seals..

I've got an '83, and i'll be upgrading to the newer style pump (regardless of what kind is in there now as I have no freakin' clue! =P)

so i'll be getting the pump, and the block off plate..

this is a kit that i've found.. I was wondering if you could give the parts a look over to see if they'd work with the new pump..

Cam Belt Tensioner Roller Part # 944 105 273 02
Cam Belt Tensioner Roller updated Part # 944 105 241 03
Cam Belt Tensioner Roller Part # 944 105 027 04
Balance Shaft Tensioner Roller Part # 944 102 277 06
Balance Shaft Tensioner Roller Part # 944 102 025 07
Camshaft Belt Part # 944 105 157 04
Balance Shaft Belt Part # 944 102 219 04

also, does pelican sell a seal kit for while i'm in there?

rmconner80 · 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldorado

also, does pelican sell a seal kit for while i'm in there?

Yes:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/944M/POR_944M_ENGman_pg4.htm#item22

As far as all the parts, you just need to find a good "kit" for your year of car. It will have all the rollers and belts needed. Avoid Flennor belts, at least for the cam/timing. They may be ok now but there were pics of the teeth not fitting.

Also, pickup a new thermostat, water pump gasket (if not included), and a power steering and alternator belt (if applicable on the 83).

hpservertech · 04-15-2008, 08:37 AM

Best bang for the buck I have found is the complete kit that 944online.com has. Everything to do the front end. Only exception is the sleeve's. Pelican is cheapest since the 2 balance shaft sleeves and oil pump gear sleeve will be enough for the free shipping.

Slam · 04-15-2008, 08:20 PM

I'd also add in new bolts, studs and nuts for the water pump. Never know what'll break. Anti-seize everything when you put it back together. If you're doing all the seals then you'll need a new cam gear bolt, the cheesehead one. It stretches as it's torqued (learned this from the good people here).

Just off the top of my head.

Eldorado · 04-15-2008, 09:11 PM

well.. my engine doesn't leak as it is now... is it worth doing the seals this time through? or could it wait 'till next time?
not trying to be cheap.. i'll spend the money if it's needed.. but if not, then why spend now i guess is what i'm asking...

Slam · 04-16-2008, 07:13 AM

If it's not leaking now I wouldn't bother. However, there is the school of thought that says do everything and you'll know when it was done.

BTW, I like the color of your car. Mine's been vandalized twice in the past 6 months and hit by some idiot parking once. Looks like hell at the moment!

hpservertech · 04-16-2008, 07:22 AM

if you get the full kit from 944online you will get the seals. You can do them the next time if you want.

Thing to remember about the front seals. The sleeves usually get a groove in them over time, so when you do the seals, at least plan/budget to get new sleeves as well as the oil pump gear sleeve.

HondaDustR · 04-16-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldorado

well.. my engine doesn't leak as it is now... is it worth doing the seals this time through? or could it wait 'till next time?
not trying to be cheap.. i'll spend the money if it's needed.. but if not, then why spend now i guess is what i'm asking...

In that case, just wait. It would be kind of a big job to do both at once (unless you have the luxury of not depending on it for daily transportation, and can take multiple days to work on it). If they are already leaking, plan to do them soon, as they get much worse pretty quickly.

It would be worth a peek inside the timing cover to see what water pump equipment you have. I know the late style pump has the block off plate, a cam belt guard, and a larger 46mm idler roller. The early pump has no guard and a 32mm roller. I'd say get a late pump, a timing/balance belt/roller kit with the 46mm roller, and the belt guard ( here -> http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/944M/POR_944M_WATpmp_pg2.htm ). The belt guard makes sense to me, and would probably be good to have. All assuming you do have the early style parts. Also, the rebuilt pump I got from Pelican came with a gasket. And replace the thermostat! It is a rare luxury to be able to change the thermostat with the pump off the car. Savor every minute of it!

If you do the cam seal, get a decent 12 point tool for the bolt and be VERY careful not to get the tool crooked while trying to remove the bolt and end up stripping out the head. They are easy to strip and are nightmares to drill the head off of (I know from experience and have a collection of many dull drill bits, including a industrial grade $10 DeWalt bit to prove it...that darn bolt sure is soft enough to strip out, but not to drill out!)

If you are trying to go cheap, the sleeves may be reusable, unless they have a lot of miles on them. My balance shaft sleeves were slightly grooved, and the oil pump sleeve was in pretty good shape. My car has 130K miles on it and they were probably the originals. but they weren't actually leaking (just the balance shaft flange O-rings). I just replaced the seals since I was in there and no leaks yet. (details here -> Balance Shaft seals! (dialup-ers grab a beer) )

hpservertech · 04-17-2008, 07:46 AM

You can only get the late style pump now.

The main front seals add about an extra half hour to do. The camshaft seal & sleeve add more time, but only about another hour depending on how tight those bolts are. But it's still all in the realm of doing within a day.

Eldorado · 04-17-2008, 11:33 AM

i see the early style pumps all over the place...
and dustr, thanks for that writeup..

what's involved with taking the front cover off? I've looked at it in the past, and saw that it's just a number of bolts holding it in.. does anything else need to be removed to pull it out? the upper rad hose looked like, from memory at least, it was in the way..

Slam · 04-17-2008, 11:53 AM

Just the 10mm bolts around its perimeter. And the alt and PS belts will have to come off first.

rmconner80 · 04-17-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpservertech

The main front seals add about an extra half hour to do. The camshaft seal & sleeve add more time, but only about another hour depending on how tight those bolts are. But it's still all in the realm of doing within a day.

I'm doing this job this Sunday. Belts, rollers, seals, water pump. I've even got new hoses in case I have time while I'm in there, or anything looks bad. It would be killer if I could get it done in one (long) day - that's all the time I have. We'll find out.

If things are going really well or if it's leaking, I'll tackle the cam seal. Otherwise, I'm probably going to skip it and get it next time. I'm pretty sketched out about cranking on that cam bolt while trying to hold the pulley still.

Wish me luck...

hpservertech · 04-17-2008, 01:00 PM

Belts & rollers wont be a problem. Water pump wont either. What will get you though is if any of the water pump studs break. That is the largest issue if you need to have the car back drivable on monday. Might want to get some just in case...make sure you can return them if you dont use them.

rmconner80 · 04-18-2008, 05:17 AM

Thanks hpservertech - I actually will be replacing all the water pump mounting hardware, and using antisieze on the bolts. Just in case. Sounds like I just need to hope none of the old ones break. The car is on the second water pump (8 years old) and the car has been good to me in terms of giving up bolts, so I've got my figers crossed.