ALIVE.. barely

Arizona_928 · 09:28 PM

ok tryin to find out my non start thing..turns over; that's all.
i tryed the carb cleaner in the intake and it runs for 10 secounds "maybe" then dies. i'm leaning towards fuel. i bought a set of rebuild injectors off of evilBay and replaced the orig's.. so those might be the problem?? or When i replaced them i had to depressure the system. how to repressurize the system?

i know i am soo close yet soo far...

mikepellegrini · mikepellegrini's Garage

From Clark's http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ts-01.htm

Clark's GSM gives you a good step by step guide to troubleshooting.

You've got smoke coming from the back of the engine when you crank the car? You said it didn't start.

The fuel pump oughta run as soon as you crank the engine (and re-pressurize the fuel rail).

Arizona_928 · 09:27 PM

like it starts for maybe 5 secounds but it's sputering and not fully running on it's own. like the whole time carb cleaner is in the throttle intake. the smoke is just the exhauset from the bad gasket on the header

wilde1 · 04-13-2008, 05:59 AM

try pulling the connector off of the coolant temp sensor. that will richen the engine and may keep running

speedracing944 · speedracing944's Garage

I know I have been saying this in allot of threads lately but it sounds vacuum leak related.

After you get it running can you get it to rev above 3K RPM?

If you blip the throttle at 3K RPM does it hesitate like it does at idle or does it blip somewhat normal?

Speedy

Arizona_928 · 04-13-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilde1

try pulling the connector off of the coolant temp sensor. that will richen the engine and may keep running

where's that at?

and is there a way to test for vacum leaks? and when i tried to start it; it would go between 1-2k rpm...

Arizona_928 · 04-14-2008, 02:43 PM

bump!!

Arizona_928 · 04-15-2008, 09:27 PM

can someone help with this? idk what to check or test.??

944Spec_bound · 04-15-2008, 10:23 PM

Hey kid,
I was looking back at your posts trying to get more history on what's going on.
Is this the same car and has it started and worked since you posted this?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i recently just bought my first car. a 85' 944. and one of the things that needed to be done is the camshaft gasket. i started to remove the fuel rail, and can't figure out how to get it off. i depressurized the system, disconnected all the hoses, & bolts. the manual i have says to pull it strieght up. but it seems the back 2 injectors won't come off. the front 2 are loose, and are willing to come off.
i know it had a light engine fire. that burned through 1 of the rubber lines. it might have melted the the injectors in the manifold? any-who is it safe to use a screw driver to pry them loose? any help is welcomed

jmd_forest · 05:12 AM

So... it runs when using starter fluid but shuts off immediately after starting fluid is burned up. Is this correct? Try having a friend sit in the car and crank it started. Once it starts, continue to give it tiny shots of starting fluid to keep it running for a minute or so. Assuming it continues running with the starting fluid, you almost assuredly have a fuel problem. Immediately after cranking the engine over a few times (or after it runs on the starting fluid for a minute ) crack open the big nut at the front of the fuel rail a few turns. Fuel should spurt out under high pressure. If you have little or no fuel spurting out, you fuel pump is probably not running (or you have a clogged fuel filter or other clog in the system). If fuel spurts out, you injectors are not passing fuel for some reason.
1) Fuel pump not running: Check fuel pump fuse. Jump the DME Relay (if fuel pump runs after jumping DME Relay, replace relay). Run a jumper wire directly from the battery 12V+ terminal to the fuel pump 12V+ terminal and see if the fuel pump will even run. If the pump runs using the jumper wire but doesn't run otherwise, you'll have to track down the cause/location of the electrical break/short to the fuel pump. If the fuel pump doesn't run with a 12V jumper from the battery, you need a new fuel pump
2) Fuel pump running, injectors not passing fuel: If the car has been sitting a long time (years?), try getting a BIG screwdriver and hold it like a pool queue and tap gently but firmly at the base of each fuel injector. "Bound up" fuel injectors can sometimes be coaxed to run this way. If this is not the case, get a set of "NOID" lights at your local big box auto parts store and follow the instructions to determine if the fuel injectors are getting the pulse signal from the DME. If they are not getting the signal, time to swap out the DME (not the DME Relay) with a known good one to test your DME. Try to borrow a known good one if possible rather than buying one. If the borrowed DME solves your problem, you need a new DME. If you're getting a signal but the injectors will not pass fuel, you need to determine if the rebuilt ones from ebay are any good.

The above is my best advise given what you've mentioned about the problme

jmd_forest

Arizona_928 · 04-16-2008, 05:36 PM

wow thanks!!!

Arizona_928 · 04-16-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmd_forest

So... it runs when using starter fluid but shuts off immediately after starting fluid is burned up. Is this correct? Try having a friend sit in the car and crank it started. Once it starts, continue to give it tiny shots of starting fluid to keep it running for a minute or so. Assuming it continues running with the starting fluid, you almost assuredly have a fuel problem. Immediately after cranking the engine over a few times (or after it runs on the starting fluid for a minute ) crack open the big nut at the front of the fuel rail a few turns. Fuel should spurt out under high pressure. If you have little or no fuel spurting out, you fuel pump is probably not running (or you have a clogged fuel filter or other clog in the system). If fuel spurts out, you injectors are not passing fuel for some reason.
1) Fuel pump not running: Check fuel pump fuse. Jump the DME Relay (if fuel pump runs after jumping DME Relay, replace relay). Run a jumper wire directly from the battery 12V+ terminal to the fuel pump 12V+ terminal and see if the fuel pump will even run. If the pump runs using the jumper wire but doesn't run otherwise, you'll have to track down the cause/location of the electrical break/short to the fuel pump. If the fuel pump doesn't run with a 12V jumper from the battery, you need a new fuel pump

jmd_forest

that is the problem. i checked the fuel rail and it's bone dry. when the key is on the on position i can hear a buzzing under the hood in the middle by the heater thing.. is that where the fuel pump is? i'll do the fuel pump terminal to terminal, "once i find out where it is tonight" jumping the relay... and then i'll go from there.

HondaDustR · 04-16-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

that is the problem. i checked the fuel rail and it's bone dry. when the key is on the on position i can hear a buzzing under the hood in the middle by the heater thing.. is that where the fuel pump is? i'll do the fuel pump terminal to terminal, "once i find out where it is tonight" jumping the relay... and then i'll go from there.

That would be the fresh air blower motor...and who knows why they made it so that it always spins at a very slow speed when the switch is off.

The fuel pump is under the right rear behind the wheel, between the fender and the gas tank.

Arizona_928 · 04-17-2008, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 944Spec_bound

Hey kid,
I was looking back at your posts trying to get more history on what's going on.
Is this the same car and has it started and worked since you posted this?

yep that's it.. but that's why i changed the injectors... the old ones where pretty bad... well when i bought it; it ran. "barely" and then i took it home and started to work on it. 4 months later and i'm almost done....

jmd_forest · 04-17-2008, 06:10 AM

Be sure and crank over the engine a few times or run it on starter fluid before testing for fuel pressure. The pressure builds up when the fuel pump runs but will drop after the car sits awhile without the engine running. Do yourself a favor and invest in a Haynes manual for your car. Also, there is a great resource for 944 troubleshooting and repair at www.clarks-garage.com.
I'm assuming you have a late 85/2 model with the fuse box under the hood by the driver's side windshiled. If you go to www.944online and click on the store entrance, select your model 944 and then click on "body electrical" you'll get a relay and fuse diagram. You can pull the DME relay and GENTLY pry off the plastic cover and you will see 2 relay contacts. If you reinsert the relay and actuate the contacts with your finger, you should hear the fuel pump run. That can help pinpoint the problem is with the DME Relay. If you can't hear the pump run, proceed with hooking up 12V directly to the fuel pump. I would sugest getting a cheap Digital Volt Meter (DVM). You're going to need it sooner or later. You can measure the voltage at the fuel pump to see if you have 12V by hooking up the DVM to the 12V+ side of the pump while someone else cranks the engine over or while someone else actuates the DME relay with their finger.
jmd_forest

Arizona_928 · 04-17-2008, 09:51 AM

thanks. mine is a early 85' so would the diagram they have still be acurate? and i'll post my findings tonight. thnkas jmd!

jmd_forest · 04-17-2008, 12:06 PM

I believe the early 85s have the fuse/relay panel in the driver's side footwell, under the dash against the firewall. And, yes, 944online has a diagram of the fuse/realy panel for the early 85 also. IIRC the early 85s didn't have the dual contact DME relay but a single contact fuel pump relay with a built in fuse on top. You can still pop off the cover and finger the relay contact as I mentioned above.

Arizona_928 · 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmd_forest

I believe the early 85s have the fuse/relay panel in the driver's side footwell.

yes that is true. i tired the fuel pump no volts. so it's probelly the relay.. check the fuses again acouple blown. tried new higher amp ones and then the fuel pump is only getting 8 volts.

jmd_forest · 04:49 PM

Prime question #1: Does the fuel pump run if you jump the relay?
#2: does the fuel pump run if you manually close the relay contact after prying off the relay cover.
#3 Did you measure the 8V with the wire pulled off the fuel pump or on the pump. If it was still on the pump, you're simply measuring a voltage drop across the pump.
#4 Did you try putting 12V directly to the pump?

If it does not run when you put 12V directly on it you need a new pump (You might try cleaning up the ground wire contact both at the pump and where it connects to ground before buying a new one though)

If it runs when you jump or manually close the relay but not otherwise, you need a new relay.

jmd_forest

Arizona_928 · 04-20-2008, 03:14 PM

well. what i'm dreading has been done. the fuel pump doesn't run when 12 volts are on it. is it safe to get a used fuel pump or is it better off buying the expensive new ones?

also one of the PO's replaced some hoses from that area.. are they supposed to be hooked up to anything?