consistant starting issue

[comicbook8@gmai]

Originally Posted by Makis

Looks like you may need to just freshen up the electrics. If the car fails to start outright then is like most cars will be more difficult to start as you risk flooding the engine. Once this happen try to press the accelerator while attempting another start, this will allow more air in and may aid the starting.

do ya think a weak coil could be an issue ?
but the thing is it starts no prob on the second try of cranking every time and when the engine is hot . could a leaking injector be an issue flooding 1 cylinder and the couple of cranks i give it first time is clearing out the cylinder . is there any way of testing for this ?
im prob just grasping at straws at this stage .
it is just 1 of an ever growing list of issues arrising with the s2 at mo

[gtroth]

--times like this I recommend measuring everything (AFM voltage, temp sensor resistances, AFM response, fuel pressure and leak down - every thing you can think of). Get your hands on the S/S2 Diagnostics and Troubleshooting Guide in the Factory Service Manual and run through it all. It's kind of fun and it's a great feeling to know what's good.

[rmconner80]

You tried a new dme relay, right?

[comicbook8@gmai]

Originally Posted by rmconner80

You tried a new dme relay, right?

D.M.E. RELAY WHATS THAT ????
only messing yeah of course the first thing i tried .im goanna get busy this week coming, and as ya say measure and test everything make sure i havent missed something silly .
i will post up on how i get on .

[comicbook8@gmai]

Originally Posted by Makis

When cold try to crank it until it catches and starts. Do not stop the cranking unless you crank over 10seconds. If it starts and runs great straight away then probably the temperature sensor is OK. If not then sensor could be suspect. Let us know if you can start this way and how long it takes to fire up.

it starts up after about 5 -6 seconds if i give it gas ,it is ok but if i dont , it splutters then idles normal . the battery is good as is the condition of the wiring that i can see , where is the engine block ground ? would a bad connection on ignition sw. or alarm immob. relay affect it only when starting .
but it starts great in winter on cold frosty mornings great within 20 mins of shut down when engine is still quite hot i have changed - plugs,leads,f.p.r and fuel pump check valve .

[comicbook8@gmai]

Originally Posted by hpservertech

It very well could be the injector harness. Could be shorting out some times. Only way to know for sure though is with a noid light. Had this happen on my late 85. Cheap to fix...you can get the new plugs at any napa. just took a couple of hours to troubleshoot.

would a dodgy harness not affect the drivability of the engine ?
she is driving great just a stubborn starter .

[Makis]

Not quite clear what you saying. Lets clarify:
Does it start without giving gas and then idles OK after cranking for 5-6 seconds?
Is this behavior consistent?

If the car runs great I suspect fueling system is OK. If the car starts always after 5-6 seconds I suspect the battery is not up to it anymore. I qualified electrician should be able to assess the battery condition. Try another battery that is known to be new and in good condition.

Also did you check for any vacuum leaks? Also the idle solenoid may be bit sticky and needs a clean!!!

[comicbook8@gmai]

Originally Posted by Makis

Not quite clear what you saying. Lets clarify:
Does it start without giving gas and then idles OK after cranking for 5-6 seconds?
Is this behavior consistent?

If the car runs great I suspect fueling system is OK. If the car starts always after 5-6 seconds I suspect the battery is not up to it anymore. I qualified electrician should be able to assess the battery condition. Try another battery that is known to be new and in good condition.

Also did you check for any vacuum leaks? Also the idle solenoid may be bit sticky and needs a clean!!!

very consistant very.
yeah she starts without giving it gas but it will splutter like it clearing its throat
i had a prob with bad batt clamp couple months ago fitted new 1 and recharged the batt which is less than 2 year old so i dont suspect the batt but i will test another in it just to rule it out.
did not check for vac leak as not to sure how to ! or anything about the vac systems on the car ,what function does vac sys perform (stupid question ??)
my brake pedal is also quite spongey .
the idle solenoid same as throttle control sw.?
thanks makis appreciate your time and knowledge

[Makis]

Yes if it splutters consistently but starts then is possible that the idle solenoid is sticking. A clean with some carb cleaner will not harm. The problem is difficult to get to it on the S2 as is under the inlet manifold. You can try to disconnect the main air hose after the AFM spray some carb cleaner through the small hose that leads to the the solenoid. Spaying some carb cleaner into the throttle body won't harm either. After that connect main hose to AFM and start the engine to clear the carb cleaner. You may repeat this a few times and at the end add some WD40 so that the solenoid gets some lubrication.

[comicbook8@gmai]

thanks for the advice ,i will try that see what happens and let ya know .

[ace_944]

Think I have the same problem on my car, and I'm thinkin its due to the fact that my fuel rail is leaking(fuel pump has to repressurize fuel rail). Still have to manage getting a new one before I'll know for sure.

[comicbook8@gmai]

what exactly are your symptoms ace? do you defo have dodgy fuel rail ?
by way of update ( i hope im not tempting faith ) i did the carb cleaner / wd40 thing on wed night , went out this eve try and fire it up and see what was what , she fired up straight away no cranking . i will have to drive it over the weekend under normal conditions before i start getting excited thinking it sorted .
but try the carb cleaner first cheapest form of starting the diagnoses

[comicbook8@gmai]

yep temped faith !!!
problem persists even after carb cleaner .i started checking and measuring stuff and came accross a dodgy looking connection on the d.m.e thermostat in the engine block. i cleaned the connection and it seemed to start much better for a while, the prob has been less consistant since i was at it . i measured resistance on ohm meter and got differant readings
from the ones listed on clarkes.a short to ground on one leg . anyway could this be the prob ?the stat in the block seems to be seeping some goey stuff and the pin seems to be scorched. anyway i ordered a new one from p.p and hoping it has someyhing to do with it .i will replace it and see what happens !
will post how i get on .

[Outback Porsche]

I feel your pain! Electrical faults on a 26 year old system are a horses arse.

I was fault finding mine last night and couldn't get her to start. I want straight to the garage after work this afternoon. Turned her key and she started with out a hiccup. I did nothing! Bugger of a thing.

Keep plodding, eventually we'll get there.

[comicbook8@gmai]

im going to figure it out no matter what, i aint going to give up .im learning lots and thats is giving me some kind of satisfaction , im really looking forward to the feeling i will get when i figure this out !!!!!
i think it important to keep posting aswell because to many posts dont have the final fix post and i find that very frustrating when looking at them for info "IF YA FIX IT POST IT"

[7B944]

Did you resolve this problem?
I have a similar issue with my 87 951. It must crank a several seconds to start. Or crank a couple of seconds, key off then key back to start and starts right up and it runs fine. Opening the rail end cap, fuel is not pressured but just dribbles.
I jumpered the dme to run the pump and could not see any fuel leaking along lines form tank to rail.
I've replaced the filter, check valve, regulator and dme relay to no avail. I have a replacement dampner and an injector reseal kit which I may try next.

[comicbook8@gmai]

sorry for the delay ,
i had ordered a new d.m.e thermostat and been waiting for it to come in !
replaced it yesterday the first start was not that promising, but started it again tonight and she fired up first crank but it to early to make a call on it yet , it been a bit cooler lately and it only started getting worse since the ambient temp. started going up ! so it could just be the temp at the mo. i will know for sure by monday ! fingers crossed

[comicbook8@gmai]

Originally Posted by 7B944

Did you resolve this problem?
I have a similar issue with my 87 951. It must crank a several seconds to start. Or crank a couple of seconds, key off then key back to start and starts right up and it runs fine. Opening the rail end cap, fuel is not pressured but just dribbles.
I jumpered the dme to run the pump and could not see any fuel leaking along lines form tank to rail.
I've replaced the filter, check valve, regulator and dme relay to no avail. I have a replacement dampner and an injector reseal kit which I may try next.

did you try the leak down test on clarkes ?
i replaced f.p.r ,fuel pump check valve and it passed the test with flying colours, but it still persisted . try the carb cleaner thing and check the d.m.e thermo in side of the engine block see what type of condition its in ! let me know if the damper makes any differance , i did'nt replace mine

[comicbook8@gmai]

no joy im afraid , still a lot of cranking going on
back to the drawing board, have to try and come up with another idea to throw money at !! any body any suggestions ????? im out of ideas on what to do next

[gtroth]

Have you measured fuel pressure and fuel pressure leakdown yet? I would start there. Much more satisfying to measure than to throw parts at it. And of course, cheaper.