Installing Headers in 87 924S

[Born2bwild1191]

I'm thinking about buying headers in the spring and I have a couple questions. First of all, is ceramic coating worth getting? secondly, is installing Headers a job that can be done by someone who is not a professional mechanic? I mean i know what I'm doing, but the last thing I need is to break a stud on the block . If anyone has any info on what is involved for an install or a link just to let me know how difficult this job is, I'd appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

[JivenJim]

With some good Headers you might make 5hp more. I get mine Coated cause it cuts down on heat on engine. Paid about $200 for coatings. But I would not mess with either unless you're racing. You get about the same power boost by removing the powersteering belt/AC.

It's kinda of a PITA cause the nuts are always rusted and difficult to reached without several types of 13mm universal wrenches. Then sliping the Header on/off a head in the engine takes a little monkey grease to get around the engine compartment. Doubt you could hurt anything. WD40 the bolts the day before to lossen up. You'll also have to drop the exhuast from the mounts under the car which is also a bit of work, before you can start on header. Ie front end must be well jacked to reached.

[Techno Duck]

I have taken the headers out without removing the cylinder head, but its a bit of work. I had to remove all of the studs before i was able to pull the headers out, this involved the double nut method to back the studs out. This is a risky process because the studs can break in the head, there is no way to really get penetrating oil on them because of the angle they are at. The 6 bolts at the lower flange are also a bare to get out if they have never been removed before.

Its do-able, but at the risk of a stud breaking into the head. If that happens, you will need a right angle drill and alot of luck to drill out the broken stud (i looked into doing this on my 951 with a broken stud...ended up pulling the head). If you cant drill the stud out, your looking at a headgasket job.

Personally i think its going to be alot more trouble than its worth.

[speedracing944]

I tried to pull the stock exhaust manifold off with the engine in but couldn't get it. I didn't try removing the studs though but either way it is going to be a PITA. Since I am putting my new engine in soon I will be installing the 4 into 1 tube header which came off the donor car. Instead of a coating I am going to wrap the header with header wrap.

Speedy

[Born2bwild1191]

Thanks for all your replies guys. maybe i should mark headers off of the wishlist....didn't realize it was going to be THAT difficult...If i were to pay someone to do it, any idea on a very rough estimate of how much it would cost?

[fast924S]

I got my old ones of and the new ones on with the engine in and studs in, Just gotta have the car jacked high and play around with it. Average home garage guy should be able to do it maybe half a day taking your time.

[HondaDustR]

First pick up some PB'laster penetrating spray at any auto parts store. It's alot better than WD40. I actually found mine at Wal Mart. Soak the bolts REALY good every day for at least 2 or 3 days for maximum effectiveness. They aren't impossible to get off, but are definitely a PITA if things are really rusted. Make sure to use good fitting quality tools, and DO NOT use any 12 point sockets or wrenches, since avoiding rounding off the bolts in the first place is the most important in making it a tolerable job. I had good luck hammering a 1/2 in open end wrench (or socket, depending on which nut it was) on the badly stuck ones. It's slightly smaller than the 13mm, and the super tight fit will usually guarantee that the wrench will probably break before the bolt rounds off...and I didn't actually break any wrenches when I did it. Just work slowly when it starts comming loose. If it binds, just work it back and forth, soaking in penetratring oil to help loosen the rust on the threads. Don't just crank it out, or you'll be sorry. This is especially important if the stud is the first thing to loosen since you don't want to tear out the threads in the head. You just need a lot of patience and nowhere to go for a day. When I did mine, the studs weren't stuck at all in the head, although some of the nuts were rusted pretty good to the studs. The real nightmare is the y-pipe flange bolts, since they are really hard to get to, especially if you need to cut them off. Mine were absolutely miserable, since they were practically welded into the headers with rust, but I have the old cast headers and I only sprayed them down with PB once and it only sat one night. I ended up twisting most of the bolt heads off and having to drill/dremel the remains out.
It would be a good idea to just replace the studs and nuts while it's apart, and use lots of anti-seize compound at re-assembly.

Exhaust work sucks...and which way do the manifold gaskets go?

You'll probably be able to gain a little more clearance to remove/install the headers by gently jacking the engine up to relieve pressure from the engine mounts. Another 1/2 inch would definitely help.
At least for removing the stock headers, I've found that just removing the 1-4 header from both the head and the y-pipe allows the entire exhaust system with the 2-3 header still attatched to be removed. This will make tackling the y-pipe bolts on the 2-3 header much easier. This reqires enough clearance under the car for it to work, but a good set of jackstands, or in my case, some drive up ramp stands under the rear with a floor jack under the front crossmember would work fine.

[djnolan]

Hi,
I am replacing a cracked steel 1-4 pipe with a full set of cast iron I bought from a pelican member. It sounds like I could just drop out the 1-4 header without removing the 2-3 at all? If I only had a 1-4 in steel. Any leads?

There is a socket for stud removal I am going to have my mechanic try. Here is the link to the tool. I think this it is the correct size.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00996461000P?vName=Tools&cName=MechanicsTools&sName=Automotive%20Specialty%20Tools&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

Thanks and Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Timmay!]

Guys,.......

Slow down for a moment....way too much work being described here. No need to remove the top header (exhaust manifold) studs. No need to drill out broken studs.
East coast rusty cars may need some PB blaster, yes. We call it Weasel piss!(thanks JIVEN) Good product.
First, don't mix cast iron headers and stainless tubular headers. Factory manual says it's a no-no.

3 generations of 944/924S headers:

1. cast iron- 20lbs/set,
2. early stainless tubulars-7 lbs/set,
3. late stainless tubulars- 7lbs/set.

The late stainless are double jacketed from the crotch to the base to help prevent cracks that occur in the 1-4 pipe at the crotch. The early stainless have a 1-4 pipe crotch support welded in.

Don't be afraid to rock the engine up on the pass. side engine mount using a crow bar. This is the key to skipping the head stud removal task because it gives you the room to slide the headers off the studs. Made easier if it's a 2-man thing. Just protect what you're prying against.
The header nuts should be 13mm, but I've seen more than a few 12mm used there. Just be ready for it. You'll need a good universal and short socket to get some of the nuts off at the top and bottom of the headers. A wrench may require alot of spinning, but sometimes that's all that will fit. If you start sliding the headers off as you're removing the most hidden nuts, you'll have more room to work with the nut. Of course, this requires the bottom of the headers to be loose first, so do the bottom bolts first.
No need to remove the header studs, but if one backs out with the nut, no prob. Just put it back in that same location when installing. So 8 nuts and washers off the top of the headers, 6 nuts and bolts, washers off the base of the headers at the start of the collector/cat pipe. Don't let the collector pipe/cat section hang on the O2 sensor wires! I put a small jack stand under that section after unattaching it from the hanger. Get the pass. engine mount heat shield out of the way by removing the two 6mm bolts(10mm head).
The late headers are smaller and can come out the top way if you loosen the water pipe that goes to the heater core. The cast iron headers are bigger and I've had to remove them out the bottom and as a pair. It's really hard, if not impossible, to get the cast iron headers out individually, or in individually. Again, don't be afraid to rock the passenger side of the engine up on the engine mount, using a crowbar, in order to get more room to slide/pry the headers on/off the head. Little dab of grease on the manifold gaskets will hold them in place on reassembly. Stand by for some smoke as the headers cook themselves clean when you start up the engine.

[djnolan]

Thanks for all the info. I have about a one-inch crack in the crotch of the 1-4 pipe in a late 85 NA. What do you recommend I do? I already have a set of cast pipes on the way. Should I use these, or try to find an older 1-4 pipe, or try to weld the one I have, or something else?

Thanks!

[Timmay!]

Don't bother welding the tubular header. It'll crack again. The cast iron headers are heavier, but they last. I've heard they can crack, but I've never actually seen a cracked cast iron header. The late tubulars last well too.
I use the cast iron or late tubulars on our company's enduro 944's and 924S's.

[Morrie]

I have some white marks on one of the lower pipes that makes me wonder if there is a crack on the pipe above but they appear to be cast iron to me. Its a pretty much bone stock 87 924S... would those have been cast iron?

Morrie

[Timmay!]

Not sure what the 924S can with because it came out when a number of things changed.
auto belt tensioner.
improved oil pan.

You can't miss the cast iron headers. They have a very rough surface that appears to be sand cast, and they are thick as hell.

[HondaDustR]

My 87 has cast headers. Look for weld joints. The cast ones are one piece and the steel ones are welded.

Cast headers:




Steel headers:

[Morrie]

Mine are without a doubt cast. I wonder if they are cracked. It sure is a pain to take a look!

MorriE

[thekidd]

Nobody mentioned Clarks? look at my signature for the site. Garage shoppe manuel.

Just looked for the walkdown for removing the headers, there is none!?!

[Born2bwild1191]

I checked Clarks before posting. I've used it many times before and was shocked to see that this wasn't on there. Thats why i ended up posting on here

[Rowan]

took me 30min to take off my cast headers with some husky wrenches and wd40. I suggest having a small handle socket and a larger one for when your under the car. its not a lot of work.