Wtf !@#$!#$@#$%

[ScoobySteve]

Just bear with me as i just feel like venting...

The previous tire place overtorqued my wheels to like 200ft-lbs. I was able to break all of them free except the wheel lock nut. I've had two places try to get it off unsuccessfully. I found a local tire place who told me they've never run into one they couldn't get off.

I tried ordering tires from them (thinking I'd do this all at once) and they actually told me that for the tires I wanted that I'd be better off ordering from TireRack and having them shipped there for installation.

So this morning I drop the car off and they tell me no problem, that they *might* have to scratch my wheel a little. (Fake Fuchs). I just got a call from them that they have tried everything and only have one option left....to take a grinder to shave the remains of the nut. They are telling me they will scratch the wheel a little and it will take two hours @ $115/hr!!@#$!@# $230 to remove a nut!

At this point, I grabbed my ankles and said yes because others have already tried this and I have 10 year old unsafe tires on the car. In my mind I tried to think of where else I could take it (truck repair place?) but I don't think any place would be any better.

[flash968]

bummer - that sucks

snap on makes a tool for just this reason - very effective

next time, don't let anyone use those pnuematic torque tools - torque by hand

oh - and get rid of the lug locks - that's what insurance is for

[speedracing944]

I heard you can chisel off the locking nut. I have never tried it but will soon on a 944 which I don't have a wheel key for.

On a side note, I never take my car in to have work done. Not even to mount and balance tires. All they see are the rims and tires from tirerack.com .

Speedy

[ScoobySteve]

Originally Posted by flash968

snap on makes a tool for just this reason - very effective

next time, don't let anyone use those pnuematic torque tools - torque by hand

oh - and get rid of the lug locks - that's what insurance is for

That's the tool they tried!!!! No bueno. The metal has gotten too soft.

I normally do tighten myself -- with a torque wrench at 85lbs.

Am I the only one who thinks that $115/hr at a tire place is an exorbitant labor rate? It's not really the money -- at this point it's how much I despise the feeling of being taken advantage of and not being able to do anything about it.

[flash968]

crap - i've never seen that tool fail - i loaned mine out years ago and never got it back

115 is not high, but it isn't low either - typically you get into that, but i understand why they are doing it - it's a royal pain to grind them off

i presume they've tried all the normal stuff, like "nuts and bolts" or "liquid wrench", as well as heating it up, and then TIGHTENING it to wake it

this is EXACTLY why i hate lug locks, and why i remove them from nearly every one of my cars - the only one i still have them on is the denali, and that's because i drag the trailer around all over the country, and don't want to run the risk of being stranded on the road and have to deal with the hassle because somebody decided to steal my wheels

still, i don't torque those to full torque either, and i use anti-seize on all of the nuts

i know that none of that is much help on this instance, but it might help prevent it in the future

[carlege]

they couldnt heat the nut then try?

[Dantilla]

This is why the tire store has never seen my car. I put it on jackstands at home, and bring the wheels/tires to the tire guys in the back of my truck.

They like it, because it keeps another service bay open, and I like it because I know they will get torqued properly.

[alantica]

Unfortunately ScoobySteve it sounds like they did the right thing on the phone call and royally screwed you with the cost even if they did tell you the amount, but the bottom line when it comes to car repairs is that high frustration = high cost. They used that to their advantage. It would be nice to know how much actual time it took for the guy to do the job and what his frustration level was at the time.

I've had the same problem before on one of my RX-7's and fortunately a drill and chisel with a LOT of my time fixed it with no scratches or problem with my rim.

I run into the situation all of the time with my clients because I work on computer systems. If it is an area in which they are eating up my time and asking obnoxious questions while I am trying to work, and I tell them what it is costing, yet they persist, I refuse to change the amount of the bill. But, if is a problem that I know will take some time and I know the client most likely cannot afford the high cost. I talk to the client, do the work and give a bill that I think is reasonable even if it is taking money out of my pocket. Dignity and common sense goes a long way in my book.

In the long run, if it is a small shop you don't have a lot of choices other than looking up any previous cases against the shop. For today, an honest shop owner may give you a break on the cost, especially if you lay out to him the way it happened and their statement that they could get it off without having to put you in that type of situation. Staying calm, cool and having patience will go a long way in talking to the owner. You never know when some idiot will pull out his shotgun and let his temper whack you out.

.

[Dave L]

Did you go back to the previous tire place to have them remove the nuts? If not I would pay the bill with the current place but I would also go to that original shop and raise hell. I serously doubt you will get anything out of it other than the chance to yell at someone but it would be fun and will let you blow off steam.

On the way home from the venting session pick up a 1/2 torque wrench, a set of sockets and a breaker bar. Its been years since I have let anyone put wheels on any of my cars. My issues was when a place DIDNT torque the wheel nuts and I nearly lost a wheel!

[bearone2]

Originally Posted by flash968

crap - i've never seen that tool fail - i loaned mine out years ago and never got it back

115 is not high, but it isn't low either - typically you get into that, but i understand why they are doing it - it's a royal pain to grind them off

i presume they've tried all the normal stuff, like "nuts and bolts" or "liquid wrench", as well as heating it up, and then TIGHTENING it to wake it

this is EXACTLY why i hate lug locks, and why i remove them from nearly every one of my cars - the only one i still have them on is the denali, and that's because i drag the trailer around all over the country, and don't want to run the risk of being stranded on the road and have to deal with the hassle because somebody decided to steal my wheels

still, i don't torque those to full torque either, and i use anti-seize on all of the nuts

i know that none of that is much help on this instance, but it might help prevent it in the future

for a tire shop it's way high, rediculously high. my mercedes shop charges $90/hr.

[ERAU944]

FWIW....

the local maintenance shop at my AIRPORT that works on AIRPLANES only charges $96 an hr.

i do what the others do, i take off the wheels and tires (and center caps... they REALLY don't need to know what this is off of), and have them do it while i watch.

incompetence sucks.

[ScoobySteve]

Well, they had the car all day. I just paid $323 to mount and balance a set of tires. :|

A few good things:
- They say they spent 4 hours getting the nut off and stud out (makes me feel better about spending $230)
- By being careful, they were able to grind it without marring the wheel at all
- They called the dealer (ouch!) and ordered me a new stud and magnesium lug
- The Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs look awesome

Now I can't wait to get my head gasket / water pump / belt job done so I can hit the road without worry.

[dewolf]

It should've been heated with an oxy torch or similar first.

[Ctan]

I've had a few situations where a lug wouldn't come off. Tried heating it, tighten then loosen, even swearing at it. Had to use a grinder to cut it to a 6 point and use a (roughly) matching socket over it. took the whore right off.

And $115 an hour is ludacris! The shop I deal with for everything I don't have to equipment to fix myself is $60CAD. Find a new shop man.

Edit: Last time I had a shop put tires on was on my '03 Grand AM (Pre-Porsche POS). The "tech" at Canadian tire (was getting a safety done) told me he had trouble getting the nuts off so he replaced all the studs on one wheel. He ended up paying for it cause I raised *****. But after I got home I found out the incompentant ***** put Antiseize compond on all my wheel studs. Wow...

[Dantilla]

Next time, take a 3/4" circle cutter, and remove the pilot bit.

Now you have the perfectly-sized tool to grind off the bolt, while leaving the stud and wheel unblemished. Use care to keep it properly centered, or you can chew up the stud.

[legion]

Get an impact socket that is one size too small. Buy one for this purpose, it might not be usable again.

Hammer it on to the lock nut.

Use an impact wrench or a long ratchet with a breaker bar to remove.

Many944s and I did something similar a few years ago when my locking nut split.

[porsche4life]

115!!!! I only paid 80 per to have my t belt checked by the best p shop in the state

[flash968]

lol - welcome to southern california - things are expensive here - the "average" house is still nearly a million dollars, even in this economy

there is nothing wrong with putting anti-seize on your studs - you only have to know how much more to torque them to make up for it - i use it on all of mine, and have for years

[1985porsche944]

And northern Va alot of shops charge around $115 an hour. But they really got you for that stud. Also from what it says in the tightening torque in the owners manual is 94 foot pounds.

[Capt Squid]

Many of the racers in POC and NASA use anti-seize on their wheel studs. We change tires a number of times during an event and the lubricant makes for more consistent torque readings.

As it was explained to me by a professional Porsche team crew chief, torque is created by the stretching of the stud. If the stud is rusty or dry, the friction will cause a torque reading that is not as accurate as a stud that has lubricant on it.

Most all the 944s I race with torque their wheels between 95 and 100 ft/lbs.