Project 924 S engine replacement - Page 3

ddbach · ddbach's Garage

Have you considered thread in place of pins? Quick, easy and safer if you are worried about the pins rotating. You can snug things up nicely too. If you are worried about the knot it can be tied to the inside (top of picture). This should work well for both the scotch pad and the felt. I'd use heavy duty button/carpet thread for strength and a large eyed needle.

HondaDustR · 07:05 PM

I hope it will come in handy for others who ever want to re-ring their motor, since there was alot of talk on the thread in the 911 rebuild forum about how just throwing new rings into a used Alusil cylinder is very hit or miss. I've been cross posting these into their "Re-ring Alusils?" thread and one guy said he had a shop who knows what they're doing with these cylinders do his and that's about what they looked like, so there's hope.

I forgot to add, I did try the soft scotchbrite pad on the cylinders, but I couldn't get it to scratch the cylinders if my life depended on it, so nothing to be had there...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddbach

Have you considered thread in place of pins? Quick, easy and safer if you are worried about the pins rotating. You can snug things up nicely too. If you are worried about the knot it can be tied to the inside (top of picture). This should work well for both the scotch pad and the felt. I'd use heavy duty button/carpet thread for strength and a large eyed needle.

That would probably work pretty well, and would be easier to get the pads nice and tight around the stones. With the pins, you need at least a little bit of slack to be able to fold it around so the pin will stick in and back out both sides.

JivenJim · 09-27-2009, 09:00 PM

Hey HondaDustr.
This is a great writeup! I would rotor wire brush those Head studs. They look like Coolant leaked in and caused some serious rusting.
I am a rushing things and realize this may cause a bit of contraversy, but I would like to add that I like to copper coat my head gaskets and make sure I retork the final head settings AFTER 24 hours or so... I found these bolts seem to strech quite a bit after sitting. But's that's just my take on this job from things I've learned doing a few.

HondaDustR · 09-28-2009, 11:08 AM

...it's HondaDustR

jk!

Ok, thanks! I think I will do a final torque check after they sit for a day. It's better than leaking. Copper coat with what exactly? I know a lot of people use some sort of copper stuff on exhaust gaskets too, and I'm not exactly sure what it is.

JivenJim · 09-28-2009, 07:27 PM

I just hang the Gasket in the Sun and spray about 4 light coats of copper gasket spray. Available at any auto store. It's definately the way to go if you reuse a gasket of light mileage, and I seem to have better luck with this process. Many of the honda and big steal block guys swear by it.
PS did I mention you should oil the Head bolts with motor oil. It's amazing that a dry bolt and a oiled bolt can toque about 20% different lbs! (not sure of numbers be it's signicant)

Rasta Monsta · Rasta Monsta's Garage

Gah! FSM torque specs are for dry threads only. . .you are seriously overtorquing your head.

John_AZ · 09-29-2009, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Gah! FSM torque specs are for dry threads only. . .you are seriously overtorquing your head.

I have always followed the WSM.

And (for first timers), you can reuse the head washers. They must be scuffed on one side-facing down. The washers cannot move when the head is torqued.

In addition to waiting between the 3 step torque procedure, I gently tap the perimeter of the head with a small hammer to help set the head. Superstition???

GL
John_AZ

Rasta Monsta · Rasta Monsta's Garage

Ooops! 2.0 FSM says DRY, I spoke before checking the 2.5.

HondaDustR · 09-30-2009, 06:11 PM

Ok, enough of the busting knuckles scrubbing the block with a toothbrush crap. That's finally done, and I finally got the rest of the bottom end over to the machine shop to be worked on. The crank, rods, and pistons are going to be cleaned, measured, and balanced. The flywheel, pressure plate/ring gear, and the front pulleys are also going to be mounted to the crank and individually balanced. The flywheel is also going to get resurfaced. Real progress is almost happening!

Schumi · 09-30-2009, 06:30 PM

I haven't followed what you're doing with the old/new block situation, but you are keeping the block/girdle combo together, no swapping girdles, right? That is very important, I'm sure you've read about it.

HondaDustR · 09-30-2009, 06:37 PM

yes, I have not swapped girdles. Also no swapping balance shaft covers and/or bearing bridges either.

Schumi · 09-30-2009, 06:47 PM

Good man.

For those not in the know- all those pieces have their bores machined together with the block, so they match perfectly. The two are connected together when the assembly is machined. Because there are multiple block machining mills at the factory and because no one block is jigged in the mill the exact same, the girdles and bearing bridges are matched to their original block. Interchanging them will lead to bores that don't quite match up, however small dimensionally, and will cause spun bearings.

HondaDustR · 10-03-2009, 03:30 PM

Just saw my parts at the machine shop while I was there dropping off some odds and ends needed for balancing. Everything's been bead blasted and is very nice looking! I can't wait to get it all back to start the final stretch of the project!

John_AZ · 08:56 PM

HondaDustR,

I was interested in the honing procedure and searched further. Some pro mechanics will just "condition" each cylinder with AN-30 on a deep cylinder scratch (really catches your fingernail) and the remaining cylinders and replace the rings. They found very little significant difference in compression between the cylinders.

I thought I'd post the link to the Sunnen AN-30 information PDF for others who may want to follow your procedure.

http://www.goodson.com/technical_support/instructions/AN-30.pdf

Thanks again.

John_AZ

HondaDustR · 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_AZ

HondaDustR,

I was interested in the honing procedure and searched further. Some pro mechanics will just hone a deep cylinder scratch (really catches your fingernail) and the remaining cylinders and replace the rings. They found very little significant difference in compression between the cylinders.

I thought I'd post the link to the Sunnen AN-30 information PDF for others who may want to follow your procedure.

http://www.goodson.com/technical_support/instructions/AN-30.pdf

Thanks again.

John_AZ

Cool. Thanks for the link.

Could you explain what you said about honing? When you say they just hone the scratch and the remaining cylinders, is that AN-30 "honing" (lapping, conditioning, etc.), or actual honing to the next oversize? And are all 4 cylinders honed equally, just the one with the scratch, the one with the scratch is honed oversized and re-lapped with the AN-30 and the others are untouched, or the other 3 are just lapped with AN-30, or are they doing pretty much what I did, disregarding the scratches, which turned out to not affect compression. ...I'm having trouble visualizing exactly what you are describing. What is the variable that was suspected to possibly cause a difference in compression ( I assume the cylinder with the scratch compared to the others, assuming the scratch is still there)?

Interesting thing about the scratches, besides the fact that these cylinders are much less scratched overal than my old ones, is that after the scotchbrite and AN-30, they are still there, but they do not catch a fingernail anymore.

John_AZ · 09:07 PM

I should have used the AN-30 "conditioning" --lapping and conditioning the cylinders with felt. Not oversize cylinder honing. The procedure you used equally on all cylinders. From item #6 from the link above.

GL
John_AZ

HondaDustR · 10-04-2009, 09:09 AM

Yeah, it gets confusing, as I've been calling it honing, but it's not really honing by the true definition.

ernie9944 · ernie9944's Garage

You got guts man, this is quiete a project you got going and even with all the bad lucks you had you'r still diving in there head first .Peoples like you are a special breeds my hat to you and good luck reviving your old friend.*******

HondaDustR · 10-06-2009, 05:43 PM

Hehe thanks! Stuff's still at the machine shop. I can't wait, since that's pretty much the only thing keeping it from all going together. It'll move fast after that.

HondaDustR · 04:17 PM

Just found out I won't be seeing my engine parts until next week. I don't know why it's taking so long, since they already had the stuff clean last week and it's just balancing and polishing the crank bearings. It's finally really starting to cool off outside. I'll have it running before it gets cold though.

Oh, and the weirdest thing happened to me today. I had to use a 11mm wrench!

It was quite the out of body experience, especially since it was on a normal bolt that was actually made as a 11mm bolt head. It wasn't on the Porsche, though.