Uh-oh broken tooth (w pic)

[GostRidr]

I'm working on tracking down a parts diagram. I pulled out the starter (the car has always had trouble starting of one type or another) to do a master/slave replace. Of all the mods and BS the previous owners performed I don't think that filing off a tooth is one of them! Is this the starter ring gear? I didn't see anything on Clarks about replacing. Anyone done this before and how bad is it going to be? Maybe worse, where is the missing tooth and will that cause me problems too?



Thanks as always,

[GostRidr]

Just found a "flywheel ring gear" here for $293. Yikes! Pelican says to check this when the clutch is out. Uh-oh......

[Techno Duck]

Bell housing must be removed to replace the ring gear, minus well do the clutch while it's off. I'm sure you can find a good used one for much cheaper.

Just make sure you find the right one, n/a and 951 ring gears are not interchangeable.

[kdjones2000]

Which car is this from?

While one tooth looks to be messed up, your '91 cab would have a "Skip tooth" ring gear that is used to trigger TDC. This is different than the 8V NA's and the Turbos.

If it's the '87S, then I am not sure how that one is triggered.

Keith

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by GostRidr

Just found a "flywheel ring gear" here for $293. Yikes! Pelican says to check this when the clutch is out. Uh-oh......

Sorry to see the ring gear damaged.
There is not easy fix. Complete clutch job down to the pressure plate.
Ring gears are very common on eBay or just do a WTB on the Pelican parts wanted forum.
Visually bad but it may not affect the starter.

It may have been the result of the "Gorilla" method of a flywheel lock. Shove a metal screwdriver or slim chunk of steel into the starter hole between the ring gear teeth and housing. Fasten with a big vice grips. Cross your fingers the teeth do not break off....

GL
John_AZ

[TibetanT]

I tend to agree with John. Someone used a method other than SOP on this, which in turn broke one tooth completely off and shaved a little metal off the tooth next to it. At least that's what it appears to be from the picture shown. Or, last time the pressure plate/clutch was removed it could have been dropped and was broken then.

Also, it would cause the starter gear to miss alignment with the ring gear occasionally upon starting the car. How does the starter gear look? Does it show any stress marks/cracks?

Replacement is a big job. Good luck with that.

[HondaDustR]

I bet that will tear up the starter gear in short order and may throw off the speed sensor. You can get a used one off a parts car from someone for pretty cheap, but it is hard to get to to replace as said.

[tom1394racing]

I can provide a good used ring gear for much less than the cost of a new one.

PM me if interested.

[GostRidr]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the info, help and replies! This gear is from my 87S. I am still researching if it is like the 8Vs or the later 16Vs - S2s.

I have had some 'lurching' upon starting for awhile now but I don't remember that always being the case. Meaning, could normal starting cause a break over time if there were some gorilla methods used in the past?

The gear on the end of the starter has a small groove in each little blade all the way around. Not coincidentally, my dad was driving it here so we could work on the failed clutch pedal and it stalled (separate aggravating issue). Starter hasn't worked since. I had it tested and it needs to be replaced. That will teach me to ignore the 'lurching'!

As for the gear, although I am intrigued by taking on such an in depth project like full clutch replacement, now is not the best time for this (ha-when IS the best time for this?). Most everyone here is more experienced and smarter about this stuff but is it possible to weld a tooth or similar in there (probably dumb but I gotta ask)? If that is at all possible, no matter how tricky, it has got to be faster than the 16 hours Clark quotes for a trained mechanic!

Is there any reason I can't rotate that gear to check for other missing teeth? I assume that I do this by cranking the engine by hand while inspecting as we go? A full inspection of the gear makes sense.

Thanks as always!

[kdjones2000]

A way to tell is to look on the top of your bell housing and see if you have 1 or 2 speed/reference sensors. If you have 2, then you don't have a skip tooth setup. If you have only 1, then the ring gear needs to be a skip tooth.

Cheers, Keith

[TibetanT]

Peter:

First and foremost, Tom Butler is a good man to buy parts from! Ask me how I know.

Second, if someone can help you, you don't have to crank the motor to check the ring gear teeth.

Here's what I would do (with someone helping):

1) Jack up the front end and support it on jack stands.
2) Make sure the jack stands are supporting the car properly. SAFETY first very important!!

3) Unhook the battery ground strap from the battery. And, also unhook the coil to distributor cable. (So car will not start.)

4) Get a 24mm or 1 13/16" deep socket with 1/2 inch breaker bar and place it on the crankshaft bolt (inside the crankshaft pulley).

5) Remove the starter, so you can see inside the hole (like your picture shows).

6) Have your helper turn the crankshaft bolt slowly, so you can watch the ring gear rotate. I would rotate the crankshaft to where this broken tooth is, put a little white paint on the broken tooth...as a reference point.

7) Watch as the crankshaft is turned for any more teeth that may be missing.

8) When you see the white painted tooth again...you're done! AND, hopefully there are no more missing teeth on the ring gear.

Now, as far as welding a piece on, well, I don't think I would recommend that in view of the fact that if it breaks again you may have worse problems. Not really a good idea since you cannot guarantee the strength of the weld. Of course, here again, a really good welder could possibly do it. I am just saying I would NOT do it.

Good luck with that, and tell Tom I sent you.

[kdjones2000]

Looking through PET, I don't think that they went to the skip tooth design until '89+.

I see the same ring gear PN for all '87 NA cars: 944.116.239.03.

Cheers, Keith

[TibetanT]

That is correct! Same for 1987 MY n/a or the S.

[Ga 951]

+1 on TibetanT
One tooth missing shouldn't make that much difference. If the stater gear hits that area,. it it will just spin faster until it get the next tooth. Multiple teeth missing may cause the stater to just spin as it is unable to "grip" the ring gear.

If it were mine, replace the starter and don't worry about it unless starting becomes a problem.

The work required to replace the gear is almost the same as a clutch job. If you have to go that far, might as replace the clutch and all the other WYAIT items.

Just my $.02