924S Autox

[r_towle]

How competitive is a 924S autox car?
What are the other cars in your class?
PCA? SCCA?

I have quite a few years driving a 914 and thought it may be fun to change it up.

Rich

[Techno Duck]

The '88 924S is the most sought after in the PCA stock 944 class (P3) due to higher compression (marginally higher HP) and its lighter than the 944 counterparts. You really need to check your PCA region to see how they class the cars though as every region uses a slightly modified version of the PCA rules.

In my region (Metro), the P3 class used to be just a few guys all running 944's. Then atleast 3 of the veteran auto-x'ers picked up '88 924S's... its an extremely competitive class now and i am happy i no longer run in that class.. instead i get slaughtered by the 914-6's in M04..all of HP in my turbo 4-banger is no help there .

Im not familiar with the SCCA rules but i would imagine you would run against some very stiff competition from the Miata's and MR2's.

[JivenJim]

88 924S has a few pounds lighter, 10 hp more (from pistons), late offset wheels (easier to find wheels), but an 2 inch or so narrow wheel base compare to 87- 944s.
Early Wires, Early transmission mount, Early Steel A Arms (preferred cause they bend rather than break, by racers) and is generally considered very fast in spec class.
87 is same but without the 10 hp more.

[petrolhead611]

I might be considered pedantic but just for the record, the 924/944/968 wheelbase was unchanged throughout production. It was the track that differed. These cars need their inherent understeer dialled out and they are ready to go.

[Le Mans 98]

Different guy, same story.
I also auto crossed a 914 for some years and have now purchased a 1988 924s and want to return to the fray.
I am looking for guidance on wheel and tire sizes allowed in stock class scca/pca.
Somewhere in my Porsche readings, I thought I read about a factory suspension option that allowed a slightly wider wheel and tire within the narrow body of the 24. Is that true, is it legal in stock classes, where could I find the parts?

Thanks

[racer]

A stock 924S would run, SCCA, in E Stock.. vs Miatas and MR2s which have dominated the class of late. Not to say a well prepped and well driven car wouldn't or couldn't win. In fact, iirc, the Fordhals (maybe just the wife?) won the class at Nationals recently.

For PCA, check your local rulebook.. for my local region, 924S, 944,944S, 944S2, 944T, 968 and 928s all run in the same class. That said, my 944 (regular) beat out some S2s to win the class.

STOCK SCCA and Stock PCA may NOT be identical.

iirc, the more SOUGHT after 924S was the 1988 924S "se" or "lemans" edition. Black over burgundy. Manual windows and seats, only 1 manual mirror iirc, came with 6"f, 7" rear wheels, lsd, and the "sport suspension" and NO sunroof.

The advantage of the 924S vs the 944 is its lighter weight. For same year cars (1988) 924S and 944 had the same motor. Pre '88 were lower compression motors.

I've seen 924s with 7 and even 8" wheels stuffed in the back. Comes down to ride height and camber settings.

[The Glademister]

I've been running my '88 924S in SCCA autocross three seasons now. It's got mods and upgrades so I'm classed C Street Prepared. I can tell you that is a very tough class at the National level. You'd be head-to-head with fully prepared Miattas and very experienced drivers. Brutal! At a local level you'll probably fair better unless one or two of those guys are in your club. Needed CSP upgrades would be heavier sway bars, better shocks, higher rate torsen bar, high fuel pressure regulator, DME performance chip, racing seats and harness. Dump the AC for lighter weight and more HP. If you're really ready to compete - get a light weight flywheel and SPEC clutch. The best investment would be R-comp tires. Get those without the other mods and you can run E Stock. Also, definitely get a race alignment. More camber makes a huge improvement.

[Jmingst]

These cars are very competitve. Its what brought me back to competing with one. I use to drive a 73' 911 in PCA events. The old girl was a regular class winner but the 924S can be driven in ways I could never get the 911 to do. The balance is so predicatable, maybe the fun of the tail wagging the dog is not there but the lap times are better. It is still a learning curve but worth doing. this is an 88' but frankly I do not feel the extra ponies. On some of the higher speed events the 4 bangers do give up some time due to lack of power, but this gets balanced out on the corners.

As for wheels you can easily squeeze 7 all the way around with 225/45 15 comp tires on a lowered and set up suspension. This picture was at a Zone event last year, and it all works

[Jmingst]

The best part of this car is cost of maintenance. There are so many spares from donors 944's that most mechanical parts are a drop in the bucket. As stated earlier. Cheap control arms, simple brakes. Even complete engines cost less than a set of jugs for a 911.

It is basically the disposable Porsche. Before you flame this I mean this in a motherly sort of way. I love the car and recommend if you buy it at the right price it will reward and surprise you with its potential.

John
73 911T (Tangerine) The old girl from AX's
85 Carrera - The baby
88 924S The new work horse (or the only one I could afford)

[matty89]

i will have to try autocross one time but my 944 is not ready yet lol ( i never raced it since i bought it )

[Le Mans 98]

Wow, great info from you guys!

My car is an 88, with manual windows, one mirror, black on (grey) and maroon int, and I don't know about the LSD. It will spin one wheel around uphill hairpins on a local hill climb kinda road we have, but it may be worn, or non lsd. Are there spring diameter and coil wire thickness specs for an SE or LeMans. (my thread name refers to the fact that my wife and I honeymooned at LeMans in 98)

I will definitely be looking for 7" wheels and put the 225/45/15s on it. (or actually check to see if mine are 7s) No substitute for contact patch!
On suspension set up. This is kinda my passion. How do you legally lower the car in stock class? My 11 year old even knows that my motto is "you can never be too low or too light!"

What are the optimum auto cross alignment specs, and also what is the optimum DE alignment specs (and sway bar settings) I used the same alignment on my 914 for autox and track, but disconnected the front sway bar to induce oversteer in autox.

It looks like a couple of you who responded were in DC and Tenn. I am outside of Roanoke Va, and hope to see you out there soon.

Thanks again

[racer]

I don't recall there being a spring difference.. but that the Lemans were equipped with the "sport suspension".. likely means Konis

LSD could be shot after all these years, but I thought they were part of the "package". Certainly the special interior, single outside mirror and manual window would make it seem as such. There could also have been some small plaque to denote the edition as well. I came across one years ago and while I went to on test drive someother cars (944S and S2) I came back to buy it, but it was already sold and on its way to the Atlanta area.

[Le Mans 98]

I finally got around to looking at the limited paperwork I recieved with the car and was very pleasantly surprised to find a "Certificate of Authenticity". The car is indeed an SE.

I have pulled the Fuchs off of my project 69 911S and measured them. They are 7s with 215 60 tires. I will try them on the car to check offset and clearance. I also have a set of Mini Lites with no wheels I will dig out and check out.

Any thoughts or guidance on wheel offset, or bolt pattern differences between 911/924? I hope to find time (and a little warmth) to try it tomorow.

I have read the SCCA stock class comp rules and there is quite a bit of "adjustability" to the suspension allowed. "Open" front sway bar! significant tuning ops there! Allowed to switch shocks and even drill upper mount to accomodate larger shaft. Double adjustable shocks allowed if I read it right. Any adjustments mentioned in the manual is allowed for alignment (camber bolts?), Shock lower mount open-even Heim joint allowed!
It says that "adjustable spring perches" are allowed as long as they retain the stock distance from perch to spindle and have an allowable decrease in ride height of 1" due to "gas" shocks?! (I am going to re-read that and maybe even get an opinion from a Marshall before I drop cash on that strategy, I would hate to be bumped up a class), but once you have adjustable perches, within a narrow tolerance, couldn't you corner weight the car?

The next research project will be the PCRs for PCA autox and club racing.

Any thought on that count? What class?, what mods? If It comes push to shove, and PCA is too restrictive, I will build a SCCA legal car and use it for DE, and autocross PCA up a class if I want to go out and play anyway.

Thanks again for everyones input.

[JHinOH]

The SE is a nice ride! I've been building/driving a SE knock off for a while now.

I put my 15x7/8 fuchs with 205 tires from my 911 on my '88 924S - great look but had to really work the rear to get them to fit. Offset is all wrong - ~23 for the 911 and ~55 for the 924S if I remember. The only way to do it is lot's of rear camber and you need to roll the fenders. It's not the right way to go, 15x7 phones with 225/45/15 is my favorite track and auto-x set up.

[ernie9944]

[QUOTE=Le Mans 98;5802045]I finally got around to looking at the limited paperwork I recieved with the car and was very pleasantly surprised to find a "Certificate of Authenticity". The car is indeed an SE.

Here is a little more infos about your Lemans 924S.Only 500 examples were sold in the US (black color only)it had 14in steering wheel-cloth door panels color code to match the details colors-160hp engine -lower.039in front & .059in rear-was fitted with stiffer spring & gas filled shocks-wheels were PD cast alloy 6jx15 front-7jx15 rear.Electric title removable sunroof was standard.ROW version
This would have been in the car but migth have get lost after all those years

[exc911ence]

I autocrossed my old '87 924S in PCA events:





The car was so nicely balanced that it was effortless to throw through the cones. I had a second set of rims (pictured) with Yokohama A-008 tires that stuck like glue. We weren't a highly competitive group, mostly just running the cones for fun, but the car certainly didn't embarrass itself amongst the newer, higher horsepower machines.

[petrolhead611]

You don't want to be stiffening up the front swaybar for AutoX,the car in stock condition understeers markedly at slow speeds in tight bends.Stiffer rear swaybar is the starting point.The LeMans(SE in USA) supension may be more neutral in stock format- would seem that trying in that format first before changing anything including wheel sizes would be the way to go. Larger wheels/tyres just sap away what little power you have and increase unsprung weight.

[txhokie4life]

http://www.lonestarrpm.com
You just need to add a wing to give it the proper lift :-)

[mmagus]

Hi there. I have been AXing my '87 924S in the SDR PCA for a year now. Before that the PO did as well. Tuffy (thats his name) is very competitive and a blast to drive. He's a very predictable car.

The wheels you are looking for are the late offset 52.3mm phone dials. 15x7. if you get longer lugs on the front and 1/4in spacers without having to roll the fender lips and you can run 225/45 (or 50)/ 15's on all four points. This lets you have total flexibility for rotation. I have taken him to two Time Trials, Button Willow and Streets of Willow since last Sept. In both cases we set new track records in class for our club. So...yes...its competitive. You can find a bit more out regarding him here: Home


Going into Lost Hill at Buttonwillow.

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