Suspension mod primer thread?

[Gawernator]

Suspension Information and Upgrades

Higher Rear spring rates actually contribute towards oversteer, not understeer.

Rupert, you have a PM

http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/oversteer.htm#.UTr3mqX_Q20

[Rupert944]

Oops, yes, reversed that in my mind. Same link suggests equal front-rear spring rates.

[Gawernator]

Yes, a neutral setup I think is pretty preferable for a daily driver. I'm at #250 front and about #267 rear effective

[Rupert944]

Alright, what about this setup:

Ground Control - 944/924/968 - C/O Strut Assemblies (pair)
Ground Control - 944/968 (Rear) Coilover Assembly (Pair)

Porsche 924S, 944 and 968 Front 30mm Sway Bar by Lindsey Racing.
Porsche 924, 944, 968 MO30 Lindsey Racing REAR SWAY BAR 19mm 5 WAY - M030 club sport.

Spring rates for the front of 210 lbs, and spring rates for the rear of 90 lbs (keep stock torsion bars @23.5 mm for total of 216 lbs). All that plus various hardware would be around $2k. Bushings look like another couple hundred.

I think I can do the work on all this, unless I have to **** around with the torsion bars. It looks like the coil overs are all height adjustable (?), so it seems like the height would be easy to get right that way.

Is there a cheaper way to get this result (or nearly this result) without getting into torsion bar replacement?

[Gawernator]

I have the first two Ground Control products on my car, except I kept the stock strut body. Not sure if you can get a front spring in 210#. Unless you re-index or remove the torsion bar the lowest drop you can get in the rear is about 3/4" with the eccentric adjustment, and you will need helper springs and couplers for the rear coilovers. I spent about $1,400 or so. Not including my sway bars and bushings, did those a while ago.

[Rupert944]

Well, worst case, I pay to have the torsion bars re-indexed.

How do the helper springs and couplers help? I.e., where do the springs go, and what are these couplers?

Did you change out the inserts yourself, or send them off? It looks like the inserts are quite a bit cheaper.

[Gawernator]

My 86 was the last year with non-sealed struts so I changed out inserts, I've done it twice, kinda a PITA but not too bad. Helper springs keep the main spring from falling off its perch and the coupler connects main spring to helper spring, because the weight of the car will rest on the torsion bar and not the coilover unless the torsion bar is deleted.

[9FF]

..I think I can do the work on all this, unless I have to **** around with the torsion bars. It looks like the coil overs are all height adjustable (?), so it seems like the height would be easy to get right that way.



Is there a cheaper way to get this result (or nearly this result) without getting into torsion bar replacement?

Reading through this post and I don't want to come across as rude, but it seems you need to get a better understanding of what you are planning and reassess if you are up to doing this task yourself. If you start yiurself and end up paying someone to do this it will be very expensive. To do it properly:

1. If you upgrade your front springs you WILL need to reindex your torsion bars. This requires you remove and refit your complete rear suspension subassembly at least once, normally twice and in some case three times.

2. Fitting coilovers at the rear with torsion bars fitted will also require you to reindex them as (1).

3. With torsion bars fitted the coilovers at the rear will NOT adjust ride height, only a torsion bar reindex will do that.

4. Putting coilovers at the rear really just add to the spring rate of the torsion bars.

5. The helpers and spacers Gaw is referring to fit on the coilovers and stop the springs from dislodging from their mounts on a bump, they do not add to the spring rate but without them your coilovers are useless.

6. If you remove the torsion bars completely and fit coilovers, only then can you adjust your ride height at the rear using the coilovers. You will have to up the spring rate substantially with the torsion bars removed and probably strengthen the bottom mount with an adapter depending on which coilover you use.

If you are uncomfortable with any of that then I'd advise you to follow the previous answer by another poster:

The standard suspension in good condition is good enough for twisty European roads, so for US highways it should be more than adequate. Just change all the bushes, check and replace as necessary all steering joints to start with, and brace the front swaybar inner mountings.

[Rupert944]

Ever notice that when someone says, "no offense, but," they are invariably about to be offensive? Maybe next time, answer the questions I have without being a prick? Because those are decent answers.

So, what, were you born with All Porsche Knowledge already installed?

[Rupert944]

Alright, so the helper springs go on the unit with the springs? That makes sense.

I'll look into the process for changing the strut inserts to see what I want to do there.

[9FF]

Ever notice that when someone says, "no offense, but," they are invariably about to be offensive? Maybe next time, answer the questions I have without being a prick? Because those are decent answers.



So, what, were you born with All Porsche Knowledge already installed?

Sorry I offended you, you obviously don't have a brain that can differentiate between advise and criticism.

Having owned one of these from new and had a total of 8 of them, track them regularly and basically stripped them top to bottom, I thought I'd help you out...guess it's not needed...bye and GL

[Rupert944]

Like I said, the advice part is appreciated, just tone down the superior attitude.

[Gawernator]

Strut Removal and Replacement

[Rupert944]

Thanks! That's not bad, excepting I don't have an impact gun. I might look into that, since this isn't the first time I've wanted one, but it would be simpler if I just took it to a shop to have the replacement done. Food for thought!

[ernie9944]

Originally Posted by Rupert944

Thanks! That's not bad, excepting I don't have an impact gun. I might look into that, since this isn't the first time I've wanted one, but it would be simpler if I just took it to a shop to have the replacement done. ___ Food for thought!

___+1 You can save yourself some money by just removing the complete unit (easy to DIY) & have the replacement done at a shop with the proper tools.It will save you lot of hassle be safer & won't cost a fortune.

[Gawernator]

Well you should have a non sealed strut. You'll need an impact gun sooner or later... And why wouldn't you want one anyways for wheels etc. spring compressors are $20-$30 on Amazon.

[Rupert944]

Impact gun means the whole compressed air apparatus, and then I would end up buying a bunch of other air tools, and the whole thing starts to get expensive.

You're right, though, sooner or later...

[Gawernator]

I have an electric one. However you'll want an air compressor lol. Personally I'm the type to either go all in or not at all. Same philosophy with my 944, however not necessarily healthy at my age haha. "Go big or go home"

[Rupert944]

*bump*

Finally got around to doing something here! I would have done this over the summer, but an Alfa 164S followed me home in June, and it took a little while for my bank account to recover...

I found a local guy who knows these cars and how to modify them, and his advice was to go with Bilsteins and the stock springs and t-bars, and then go from there. I had him install the shocks/strut inserts, as one of my ball joints was bad, and I didn't want to deal with replacing the control arm, so while he was in there...

I'm taking it back to get the t-bars re-indexed this week (back end has been sagging for a while). So far, though, I'm liking it a lot. It's not too stiff, and the body roll is reduced. I think I might get bigger sway bars (by a few mm), but I don't want to increase the spring rate at this point.

Just wanted to update this thread for posterity!

[petrolhead611]

Hopefully the car that followed you home was the Rudeness Patrol. You were unpleasant to me and another contributor on this thread-not the way to encourage people to help you.