Hard Cold and Warm Starting Issues - Need Help Troubleshooting

[uvachief]

Turns out my lower reference sensor is frayed at the male plug. See below. I was told the male sensor and female connector should have been bound by a thin gold wire. Mine wasn't and just cam3 apart. It looked like the surrounding bracket for the male plug was cracked and missing. The two were joined. I tried to pull apart at first but it was tight. However, then it just came apart. Maybe the wire was hanging on by a thread? What part number is the female plug and where can I find the gold wire?

[uvachief]

Okay. Dumb question of the night. To remove the old reference sensor, do I just loosen the nut near the firewall and the pull it out?

[John_AZ]

Each reference sensor has a bolt on top.



Put a piece of tape over the TDC hole on the bell housing to prevent the bolt/nut tool /// from falling in or you will never get it out of the clutch!!!!

Gently turn the sensor R to L and then UP.

There is an "O" ring in the center of the ref sensor. It gets very brittle.
It may prevent removal.

Then this is what happens...

Photo credit h8ter.



Good Luck
J_AZ

[GreenWater]

Yep, I've had that happen, a broken sensor like in the picture. In theory they just pull out after removing the one screw. Make sure you put tape over the hole right there. Like John said, stuff will fall into the clutch and it won't come out. If you have trouble pulling it out, maybe use some wd40 and let it soak into the sensor, it might help it slide out. Spinning right and left might help too. But they might just spin easy and not come out. I believe that's from the oring holding it back. As a last resort you can remove the complete bracket like in the last picture from John. You will then need to adjust the bracket when you reinstall it, and then the sensors.

[uvachief]

After all of this, it turns out to be a defective after market dme relay. I had yet another spare. 3rd time replacing since may of 2010. Found a frayed mark reference sensor with a cracked male connector. Replaced that and still would not catch. Checked dme fuse box. No power. Swapped out dme relay (uro) with another new dme relay (uro) and voila...fired and catches. So irritated it was this dang relay!

[GreenWater]

You should make a DME jumper with a paperclip and keep that to test the DME relay. I can't remember where I saw it, I think it's a post on here. I keep a new DME and a paperclip jumper in my car at all times, just in case.

[John_AZ]

Originally Posted by uvachief

After all of this, it turns out to be a defective after market dme relay. I had yet another spare. 3rd time replacing since may of 2010. Found a frayed mark reference sensor with a cracked male connector. Replaced that and still would not catch. Checked dme fuse box. No power. Swapped out dme relay (uro) with another new dme relay (uro) and voila...fired and catches. So irritated it was this dang relay!

I found out years ago URO DME relays (and every other URO aftermarket part) are junk and never last.

Buy a decent OEM Stribel relay:
Pelican Parts - Product Information: 993-615-227-01-M76

and use the 3 Wire Jumper as an emergency spare.

DME Relay Information and Testing

J_AZ

[GreenWater]

Thanks John. That's the jumper that I was talking about. Just make sure it touches all the right prongs on the relay and you are good.

[uvachief]

Oh I wish I had seen John's post before I removed the sensor. I know I dropped that bolt into the top dead center hole. Cheese and crackers!

[uvachief]

Okay. Replaced the frayed sensor and put in a new DME relay and voila! It started. Drove it for about 1,000 miles since 10-9-13. Never had any issues with the clutch but I never ever found the dang bolt. Put in a new Stribel relay. Was running fine until 2 weeks ago. I noticed it cranked funny. Tach bounced to about 5,000 and it barely caught. Had a hard time starting it when going home with the same sort of problem. Sounded like a week battery (battery is 3 years old). I tried to start it yesterday. Bounced to 5,000 rpm and then it didn't catch. I put the charger on the battery. Only took about 20 minutes to get a full charge green light on the battery and it was showing 75% or more capacity when i hooked it up. Switched out the DME relay again just to be sure. Tried to crank it. Nothing. No tach bounce at all. No spark. Tried the paper clip DME relay method. Didn't work. Put back in the recently installed Stribel DME relay. Nothing. You turn the key, you get lights and power but the engine does not turn over at all. Any suggestions?

[GreenWater]

Just a guess, but it might be worth checking the starter. If the starter is broken then it won't turn over the engine and you wouldn't get any tach bounce.

I don't know why the Tach would jump to 5000 while starting it. If possible, I would try to borrow a DME from a friend and see if that fixes the problem.

[uvachief]

The starter is something I have not replaced. That and the alternator. Would a dying starter contribute to frying DME fuel pump relays? That might explain a lot.

[uvachief]

This is the part number for the rebuilt Bosch starter correct? 951-604-101-00-M14

Originally Posted by GreenWater

Just a guess, but it might be worth checking the starter. If the starter is broken then it won't turn over the engine and you wouldn't get any tach bounce.

I don't know why the Tach would jump to 5000 while starting it. If possible, I would try to borrow a DME from a friend and see if that fixes the problem.

[GreenWater]

Yeah, that looks like the part number for the starter, at least it's not too much money. I would make sure that the starter is bad before buying a new one. The starter is something that's pretty easy to test once it's off the car.

I don't think the starter being bad would make the DME relay fry, but who knows with the 944, anything's possible.

Thinking out loud here. If the DME relay is frying, then that means that it's getting WAY too much power at point. The problem is how/why it's getting so much power.

I really hate electrical problems, mostly because it's something that still confuses me.

[uvachief]

Thanks GreenWater! It was the starter. Why that didn't come to mind first, I have no idea. I'll monitor the DME fuel pump relays. I bought the car in May of 2010. It had an existing DME relay. I replaced that within a few months with the URO one that recently died. It now has a brand new Stribel in it so if that goes bad I know I have an electric gremlin somewhere. I think my starting issues were a combination of problems: frayed cross reference sensor, dying URO relay and dying starter. She should be good to go now. Here is crossing my fingers!

[GreenWater]

Awesome, I hope that's the last of your problems and the car runs great.

I'm sure it was a combination of a few things. That seems to be the M.O. of the 944.

Glad I could help.

[rhett]

Originally Posted by GreenWater

I'm sure it was a combination of a few things. That seems to be the M.O. of the 944.

Now ain't that the truth!

It's always good to see a problem resolved here...

[uvachief]

I would have pushed my car over a cliff by now if it wasn't for this site and its members. Nikki would be rusting in a dismantler's yard otherwise. Yeah it has a name. I know that is lame.

[GreenWater]

It's really not that lame to name your car. There was a post here about who names their cars and what the name is. It seems like most people have names for their 944s. I never named my cars until I got married, my wife does it and now that we have several cars it just makes it easier that way. My 85.5 is called Crusty. It's not in the best shape and has broke down a lot, but now it's running great. My other 944 is just called White car.

Believe me, we have ALL wanted to push our cars off a cliff, set them on fire, or jump them into a lake, but once they are fixed, we all love them again. It's just the relationship that we all have with the 944. Once I was planning on setting Crusty on fire to collect the insurance money, but now I'm glad I didn't.

[uvachief]

Okay...fixed the starting issue. My starter had died. Fires and catches just fine now.