Not quite right (alignment/steering issue)

[Litesonic]

So I bought an 87 944 NA that I wanted to work on to make better, and hopefully pass along.

The first big problem was that it was just about gushing powersteering fluid. So I sourced a replacement rack and installed it.

While I was in there, I removed the tired motor mounts and installed new ones.

I then put the new tie rod ends onto the replacement rack. When it came time to hook them up to the steering knuckles, it seems like I am REALLY off.

I spun the tie rods into an approximate distance from the end of the threads (matching the measurement from the previous rack) and the front wheels are severely toed-in. I was always planning on taking it for an alignment, but I can't even drive it this way.

I spun out the tie rod ends as far as I feel safe with... easily another inch on each side, and I still don't have enough "arm" to get the wheels to a somewhat drivable arrangement.

What am I missing here? is there a nut that got loose on the suspension that is causing this mad toe-in?

thanks for advice.

[944tothefloor]

What about the inner tie rods? Those are adjustable too. See if you have room to spin those out. Good luck.

[Litesonic]

Makes sense.

I thought perhaps because it came from another in-service 944 that it would be a bolt-on with minimal fiddling. Now I may have to remove it again to make that adjustment.

Oh bother.

[Jfrahm]

It sounds like an early vs. late offset problem but that does not make sense for an 87 unless it's been reverted to early offset? I do not think there is a lot of adjustment per se in the inner tie rods is there? I thought you screw them in and stake them and call it done.

Usually if you see this it is an issue with late offset tie rods being fitted to an early car or a 924S.

-Joel.

[Rasta Monsta]

either rack or tie rods are wrong parts, and DO NOT try to run out inners! wrong!

[Slam]

^+1. You've got early tie rods on a late car. Don't adjust the inners. Get the right parts.

[thomasryan]

Be safe. Standard protocol for the Germans is at least 9 turns in. Ideally you should have the same number of threads engaged on the inner and outer tie rod.

[Litesonic]

Seems odd, but makes sense.
The donor rack must have been from an earlier car even though it has male tie-rod ends. Maybe all power racks do and only the early manuals are female.

Thanks again.

[944tothefloor]

Hmm unscrewing inners seemed to give me the needed centimeter or two. Otherwise it looked like there wasnt enough hug on the outer tie rod.

If I am remembering correctly, the rack should still fit if it is early or late. For example, an early rack with early tie rod ends can fit directly to a late car. Hence people being able to convert their turbos to manual steering.

[944tothefloor]

Originally Posted by Litesonic

Seems odd, but makes sense.
The donor rack must have been from an earlier car even though it has male tie-rod ends. Maybe all power racks do and only the early manuals are female.

Thanks again.

Early manual racks have male tie rod ends.

[Litesonic]

The more I learn, the less I know.

What I meant to say was I thought all early manual racks had female tie rods, with male tie rod ends. (I remember seeing on youtube someone who converted to a manual set up, and that required different outer tie rod ends than the ones he was using with his power set up.) So that is why I thought all power racks would be the same. But of course, it's logical that there would be different for the early/late set up.

What's amazing to me is how different the setups are... the difference in offset on the wheel is only 16mm (between an early v. a late 15in phone) but this looks obviously off by several inches.

I will now learn how to replace the tie rods too. Gotta pull the whole rack again... ugh.

[djnolan]

The couple of times I have replaced a rack or tie rod ends, I count the number of turns it takes to unscrew the tie rod end from the rack, write it down, and reverse it when installing.

This has worked for either replacing a rack or a tie rod end or both to get the toe close enough to not ruin the tires. I think the length of the rack and tie rod is very standard.

If you didn't do this you can use a tape measure to reset the toe but it is a pita as you need to get it to about 3/16".

[Litesonic]

Yes, I did this... and when I put the ends on, it was WAY pidgeon toed.
The difference in tie rods (early v. late) seems to be the logical difference.

[djnolan]

You had the right idea. I guess if you compare the old tie rod to the new thee will be a difference in dimensions. Hopefully you wrote down the thread count or you can estimate by the dirt on the old ones and get it close once you have the correct part.

[944tothefloor]

Theres one really good wheel alignment trick you can use, and if youre good you can nail it. I think its called the eclipse method. I used it. Its on youtube.

[Litesonic]

I love this forum.

Thanks for all of the great knowledge and advice.