Another TDC question

[fiily]

Doing the belts/wp/roller/front reseal on the 944T and finding my TDC marks not lining up. The camshaft timing looks good, but the lower balance shaft and top balance shaft marks are both off.

I cannot read the bellhousing TDC mark by the reference sensors, too much crap in the way.

So from what you see, should I be okay to install the flywheel lock? Picture below.

[honerboys]

I think you should find that flywheel mark - I know it can be hard to see so once you find it mark it with white paint - it's just a line across the top flywheel surface and blends in - either your balance belt is off a tooth or your timing belt is - no way of knowing which unless you make sure the flywheel is spot on

[CHICKS]

It doesn't matter where the balance shafts are at when setting TDC for the cam belt. Look for the TWO flywheel marks and the cam mark.

[fiily]

Still a no go, I checked the flywheel and found the raised line off by 1inch from the starter/bellhousing notch. What's even stranger is I get significant resistance when trying to rotate the engine over at the crank bolt trying to get TDC.

I must be really messing a something up, I should have been done by now.

On a good note, all cooling hoses and clamps are replaced, differential fluid replaced, oil and filter done, spark plugs, cap and rotor replaced, so still a good day, but I want to be driving!!!!

/

[Dean924s]

Originally Posted by fiily

Still a no go, ... .. . . . . What's even stranger is I get significant resistance when trying to rotate the engine over at the crank bolt trying to get TDC.

This makes me cringe. Best hope it is just a lot of compression and not a valve hitting a piston

[fiily]

Originally Posted by Dean924s

This makes me cringe. Best hope it is just a lot of compression and not a valve hitting a piston

I hope not, I just drove the car right before doing all this, belts didn't jump a tooth...I might grab a beer to think it out. Thinking about pulling the spark plugs out to see if it relieves the compression.

[jeffrsmith]

Originally Posted by fiily

...I might grab a beer to think it out. .

Probably your best approach. You need to get that flywheel mark centered within the window and keep the cam mark lined up.

[argiopeweb]

Originally Posted by fiily

Thinking about pulling the spark plugs out to see if it relieves the compression.

I'm certainly no expert, but I've never had any great success getting things aligned with the plugs in. It takes a gentle touch to ensure the flywheel mark lines up (it can move by that window without you even noticing), and I just can't pull it off while overcoming the compression.

You've probably tried, but I usually get best results on seeing the flywheel TDC mark with a high-powered flashlight and one knee on the upper strut mount. It helps to have a helper so you can watch for the mark. Some cars have a cover over the inspection hole, so there's that...

Strictly speaking, if you are 100% sure that the alignment is on, you could align the cam pulley mark and stick the flywheel lock in. As long as you put it back together the same way, it should be as fine as it was before you started. I'd probably only do that if I somehow ended up with a flywheel with no mark though.

[notMyScreenName]

Originally Posted by argiopeweb

I'm certainly no expert, but I've never had any great success getting things aligned with the plugs in. It takes a gentle touch to ensure the flywheel mark lines up (it can move by that window without you even noticing), and I just can't pull it off while overcoming the compression.

You can also locate/verify TDC through the #1 spark plug hole. Place a long (make sure that it's long enough that it can't fall in) wooden dowel into the #1 plug hole and allow it to rest on the piston. Then watch it as you rotate the shaft. It will be highest at TDC (i.e. the piston will be all the way up).

...For what little it's worth, I've never been able to see the alignment mark through the window on mine (a 951) and have always used the bell housing.

[argiopeweb]

Originally Posted by notMyScreenName

You can also locate/verify TDC through the #1 spark plug hole. Place a long (make sure that it's long enough that it can't fall in) wooden dowel into the #1 plug hole and allow it to rest on the piston. Then watch it as you rotate the shaft. It will be highest at TDC (i.e. the piston will be all the way up).

Right... Totally forgot about this one. Definitely use a wooden dowel. Don't do what I tried and use stiff plastic hose. I don't care how stiff it is, it'll crinkle and get stuck in there. Took me 3 minutes of panic and attempted turning to realize I hadn't had some sort of valve collision. Took me 10 minutes to get the bloody plastic hose (which was super flat by this point) out of the spark plug hole. Bad choice overall.

The only trick with this method is ensuring the cam isn't 180° off when cylinder #1 is at TDC. Not tricky at all, really.

[Bradical]

Quote de argiopeweb

I'm certainly no expert, but I've never had any great success getting things aligned with the plugs in. It takes a gentle touch to ensure the flywheel mark lines up (it can move by that window without you even noticing), and I just can't pull it off while overcoming the compression.

You can also locate/verify TDC through the #1 spark plug hole. Place a long (make sure that it's long enough that it can't fall in) wooden dowel into the #1 plug hole and allow it to rest on the piston. Then watch it as you rotate the shaft. It will be highest at TDC (i.e. the piston will be all the way up).



...For what little it's worth, I've never been able to see the alignment mark through the window on mine (a 951) and have always used the bell housing.

Seconded. That distance you are off on the flywheel notch is less rotation on the cam gear than one might think. Line that mark up and check the cam mark again, you should be very close.

Also, its certainly the compression thats hanging you up, pull the plugs first.

[fiily]

Originally Posted by Bradical

Seconded. That distance you are off on the flywheel notch is less rotation on the cam gear than one might think. Line that mark up and check the cam mark again, you should be very close.

Also, its certainly the compression thats hanging you up, pull the plugs first.

I'll pull the plugs and hope for the best, thanks all.

--phil

[Rasta Monsta]

Object in the hole is a terrible method. Next time you have an engine apart, look how much time the piston spends NEAR the top of the cylinder as you rock the crank back and forth. You could easily be several degrees off doing it this way.

"Too much crap in the way" is a poor excuse not to use the factory timing mark. We've all made it work, just get it done.

[fiily]

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Object in the hole is a terrible method. Next time you have an engine apart, look how much time the piston spends NEAR the top of the cylinder as you rock the crank back and forth. You could easily be several degrees off doing it this way.

"Too much crap in the way" is a poor excuse not to use the factory timing mark. We've all made it work, just get it done.

LOL, I just got the disapproving dad talk. I will check it out again tongiht after work. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

[bordin34]

I found if you close one eye and hold a flashlight right next to your open eye it is possible to see the mark through the top of the bellhousing.

[Rasta Monsta]

Originally Posted by fiily

LOL, I just got the disapproving dad talk.

Awesome. . .just the tone I was going for!

[fiily]

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Awesome. . .just the tone I was going for!

I get it from the wife too, "going to see the mistress?", when I go work on the porsche. I just want to get back into the seat and drive it a bit before the snow flies, otherwise its staying the garage for 6-7 months till spring.

[fiily]

Originally Posted by fiily

I'll pull the plugs and hope for the best, thanks all.

--phil

So, ultimate bonehead here. I pulled the plugs tried and still nothing. I stood there staring at the car in disbelief, and while doing that i was looking at the dash and saw the car in gear, enough said. TDC was found easily.

[bordin34]

I wish I could say I havent done that before.

[Bradical]

Good going, brother! If you havent already, watch Van's video on youtube.