944s problems

Gordon Rankin · 11-14-2002, 11:42 AM

I have seen many references to the 944S and its "problems" but I have yet to see specifics. What exactly is wrong with the 944S.
SPECIFICS, please.

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Eight more valves and an extra cam.

944S Boyeee · 11-14-2002, 12:10 PM

As an S owner, I'd have to say the biggest probelm with the S is the people who bash it!!!

The only real problem area is the Cam Tensioner. There are two plastic/nylon ramps that the Cam Chain runs on and these get brittle with age. It doesn't matter if the car has 1 mile on it - these ramps get brittle with time and break. When the top ramp break (most frequent), the Chain catches on the Cam sprockets and BAM!! Broken valves, etc, etc and most likely a destroyed head.

Another problem area for the S would be the cost of a new head...it's pretty pricey - but that shouldn't come into effect unless the Cam Tensioner goes.

Some "bashers" have mentioned a poor head design or something like that - but I still don't get what they speak of. Most S's have had head failure because owners ignore the Cam Tensioner. It's kinda like saying the entire 944 line has poor belt design....cause if you ignore them - the engine sucks!

I will tell you.....the S model cars do have probelms getting the idle just right......just a side effect of the 16-valve, 4 piston design. You will fix this and fix that and the idle will almost never be perfect - am I alone on this one, other S owners??

944S Boyeee

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

I was going to post something about new 944S owners that ignore immediate advice about checking the timing belt, chain and tensioners -- but I'm not.

944S Boyeee · 11-14-2002, 12:30 PM

I wish I had more of that advice when I first bought mine. The belts had all been done at Porsche 40,000 klms ago - but it was about 3-4 years before I bought the car. I was under the false sense of security of the low Klms and ignored the time factor and the fact that the PO stored the car a lot.

Belts were brittle and sheered teeth off and bent 8 valves. Head survived though.....so much for the "weak" head theory.

SoCal is right - NEVER ignore belts!!!

944S Boyeee

overkill · 11-14-2002, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 944S Boyeee
As an S owner, I'd have to say the biggest probelm with the S is the people who bash it!!!

The only real problem area is the Cam Tensioner. There are two plastic/nylon ramps that the Cam Chain runs on and these get brittle with age. It doesn't matter if the car has 1 mile on it - these ramps get brittle with time and break. When the top ramp break (most frequent), the Chain catches on the Cam sprockets and BAM!! Broken valves, etc, etc and most likely a destroyed head.

Another problem area for the S would be the cost of a new head...it's pretty pricey - but that shouldn't come into effect unless the Cam Tensioner goes.

Some "bashers" have mentioned a poor head design or something like that - but I still don't get what they speak of. Most S's have had head failure because owners ignore the Cam Tensioner. It's kinda like saying the entire 944 line has poor belt design....cause if you ignore them - the engine sucks!

I will tell you.....the S model cars do have probelms getting the idle just right......just a side effect of the 16-valve, 4 piston design. You will fix this and fix that and the idle will almost never be perfect - am I alone on this one, other S owners??

944S Boyeee

HA HA HA, THIS FRIGGIN GUY LOVES HIS "S"

SoCal Driver · SoCal Driver's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by 944S Boyeee
I wish I had more of that advice when I first bought mine. The belts had all been done at Porsche 40,000 klms ago - but it was about 3-4 years before I bought the car. I was under the false sense of security of the low Klms and ignored the time factor and the fact that the PO stored the car a lot.

Belts were brittle and sheered teeth off and bent 8 valves. Head survived though.....so much for the "weak" head theory.

SoCal is right - NEVER ignore belts!!!

944S Boyeee

Ah, OK...

Take a deep breath. This may bring back haunting memmories.

Your first thread;

Posted 11-19-2001 Thread: "Duh!!! When should I shift???"

thamlin000:
**Important** Make sure your t-belt is fresh, when they snap, engine and or valves can be mortally wounded. T-belts must be changed no later than every 50k miles, but some folks do it at 30k to be safe.

Boyeee:

I have heard of this tensioner thing a couple of times B4. I'm about 25,000 miles away from the scary 100,000 mile mark.

I have heard that it's a HUGE job, but U say only like a couple of hours labour?? I'll take U'R answer, seeing as U have had this done.
....

dk944s2:

Glad to hear that your 944S puts a grin on your face...the way it should be. Yours is a pretty low-mile (low-klick?) car, but as you approach 90,000-100,000 miles you should replace the cam chain tensioner (for the roller chain than links the intake and exhaust cams in the middle of the head). If its plastic rubbing block fails, it can take out the entire valvetrain ($$$$$$$$, U.S. or Canadian!). The tensioner costs about $250 U.S., takes the DIYer 2 hours max to replace, and is money well spent for real peace of mind. (Did mine at 108,000).

Good luck!!

--Doug

Another thread you replied to: New 944S owner
11-18-2001

wolfrpi:

Exhaust leaks and similar problems are just the tip of the iceberg for the 944S. Read the posts about the 16 valve head carefully.

Erick

Boyeee:

I'm an "S" owner!! Anyone got any tips on what I should look at as problem areas?? Other than timing belts (which were just done) and the Camshaft tensioner thing.

Any input would help as I'm totally new at this game.

Where is the post on the "S" head??

--------------------------------------------------------------

If you had searched the previous posts on "944S head" you would have found:

"Timing belts on 944S" 10-03-2001

lordgrommit:

Prob talking about the chain Tensioner which you should do before you put another mile on the car. the old plastic ones go and bang no head and at least 1200 in work if it's savable or a new head... This is the reason you see S's and S2's out there with 50K on them and a major repair bills... other than that there are upgradeded tensioners which I belive are the auto tensioning kind..$1000 if they did all the above wouldn't be too bad a price not a deal but not getting it in the shorts either...do it yourself and save the money...

Matt

wolfrpi:

Save your money...

I'll paypal $350 to you for the car. Thats probably too much as I will have to tow it to California though.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE INFAMOUS 944S and S2 CHAIN TENSIONER

IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE TIMING BELT

The 944S is a time bomb in that it has the usual timing belt BS and to add on to that it has the timing chain bs.

You MUST change the timing chain tensioner pads ASAP my friend. If not, you'll break the chain, bend at least half the valves, probably break a couple of pistons, ruin both cams, and crack the head. My car had it go at about 35k (prior owner). Repair was over $6000. Rebuilt heads are about $3000 without core (which you won't have because the head will be destroyed).

With the original tensioner I'll give you another 5-10k at the most.

DO IT

Erick

wolfrpi:

Its not only mileage - its age. They become brittle with both. Waiting till 80k is absolutely crazy IMO but it could be good business...lol. There have been at least a couple a horror stories on this board alone about the problem. The S2 email list on rennlist is even worse. The tensioner pads are cheap if you source them from the 928 parts bin. Its the pads that break - not the tensioner itself.

BTW - the belt tensioner on an 87 is an auto-type. Should be reset (loosen then tighten)after about 2k - thats it.

Erick

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line:

Learn to use and listen to your resources.

Ask again to confirm the point of the replies.

AFJuvat · 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gordon Rankin
I have seen many references to the 944S and its "problems" but I have yet to see specifics. What exactly is wrong with the 944S.
SPECIFICS, please.

Specificly what is wrong with the S:

Nothing, but, (insert qualifier here).

Qualifier 1: It has a very rigid maintenance schedule. there is little to no room for "letting things go" on an S.

Qualifier 2: Parts and labor are significantly more expensive on an S or S2.

Qualifier 3: Due to the way the engine is laid out, it isn't as easy to work on.

Qualifier 4: Porsche changed the "engine tin" (cam pulley housing etc) on the S to more of a Pot Metal - it can warp.

Qualifier 5: Any work done on the head will be very, very expensive.

IMHO, they are not bad cars, but you MUST know what you are getting into and be able to judge your mantenance requirements vs. your mechanical abilities.

Properly maintaind, they are a fun car. Poorly maintained - you will exceed the value of the car in repairs very quickly.

AFJuvat

kenny · 06:03 AM

SoCal,
Boyeee needed a little spanking -- you kicked his a$$! Now you kids treat each other nice!

There is no mistaking the necessity of proper maintenance with these cars.

For ALL you newbees -- belts every 3 years or 30K miles max!!!!! have them done now if you have no history. Have them retentioned after 2K and 15K after that -- no exceptions!!! I got a guy here at work with a 87 924S (no history and he'd already put several thousand miles on the car). My eyes got HUGE and I told him 'do not drive the car again before he changed out the belts'. Damn -- he looked at me like 'what are talking about'. I still not sure I convinced him -- I'm just waiting until he comes over white as a ghost, shaky-handed and all, whining about he wished someone had told him about that!!!! $hit!

If you can't afford to do the belst -- you really can't afford this car -- sell it to someone who can care for it!

944S Boyeee · 11-15-2002, 06:33 AM

SoCal - thanks for the walk down memory lane.....but most of that was about the Cam Tensioner, which I did address.

My point was I wish more people would have mentioned about age of belts as opposed to the mileage intervals. I was ok according to the mileage on my belts (only 40,000 klms since last change), so I didn't pay close enough attention.

I know now that mileage is important, but knowing what sounds to look for and how to visually check the belts myself is paramount.....and I owe that knowledge to people like yourself and all the others who have helped me.

944S Boyeee

944S Boyeee · 11-15-2002, 06:48 AM

....oh, and thanks for "spanking my a$$" - didn't know I needed it, but thanks anyway.

944S Boyeee

Gordon Rankin · 11-15-2002, 07:52 AM

It seems that all I have seen amounts to

1) Its not a bad car, probably very good

2) Just has maintenance issues which need to addressed, promptly

Is this about it?

Thanks everyone. I learned a thing or two here..

944S Boyeee · 11-15-2002, 08:33 AM

I'd say that is a fair summation......

Are you interested in buying an S or something??

944S Boyeee

Sternn · 11-15-2002, 09:31 AM

I love my S. I have had it for years, but it has been in the shop for the last 4 months as I have been rebuilding the head.

My tensioner didn't go, it was my head gasket which screwed me. It sprung a leak on the four cylinder (the one closest to the back of the car) and coolant flooded into the cylinder. The piston couldn't compress and the pressure blew out one of the valve springs. It also warped all the other valve springs so they were meeting their specs (they couldn't close the valves all the way)

So I had to rebuild the head.

Good news is, EVERYTHING in my head is BRAND NEW, and I had the head itself honed, bored, and bead blasted to make it perfect. That however made the valve cylinders a little too big so I have been spending a month trying to get oversized valve guides to finish up the job.

In the meantime, I figured since it was in the shop I might as well do some other mods on it (it was either that or pay a daily sotrage fee).

So, thus far over the last 4 months I have

- Did the 'big red' brake conversion
- Added 996 twist rims with pZero tires (Directions in front Asymettricals in back)
- Got a complete tune up
- Replaced every belt, gasket, seal in the engine
- Added new swaybars from a S2 (MO30)
- Put in a new water pump
- Put in a new thermostat
- Ripped out the airbox, made a bracket and put in a K7N cone filter
- Added a strut brace
- Added camber plates
- Put koni yellow coil over struts and shocks on
- Added a fuel rail gauge
- Blasted and poweder coated the valve cover and intake manifolds
- Bought a new fuel rail cover

Things I bought which I am still working on:

- Adding a rear turbo valance
- Adding a vented nose panel (to feed the cone)
- Adding a hood with NAPA duct (to feed the cone)
- Adding wide rear end panels (new rim tires are 17x7 & 17.5x9) wide rear makes it look SWEET.

No2 System:

- Adding a complete Nitrous system (NOS)
- Adding gauge cluster underneath the radio w/No2 pressure gauge, air fuel ratio, 2 aircraft style cover toggles
- Adding gauge cluster to left of windshield with exhuast temp gauge and air/fuel mix guage
- Adding a MOMO steering wheel with nitrous buttons

Wheew. Thats about all I can remember thus far. I'll have pix once I get her back from the shop. It's a three step process for me, fix up the engine, then add the nitrous, then make the body mods.

Wow, that rant went way off topic. Bottom line, the 944S is not as bad as most people claim, at least thats my opinion. I have had mine for years and love it. Like anything it all depends on the amount of TLC (and cash) you put into it. I myself also have a few saltwater coral reef tanks. Unlike freshwater fish (which I also have still) they are much harder to keep alive and happy, but once you get the hang of it, it's not a big deal. Same goes for the 944S, once you know what needs to be done, and make sure to put in the proper care and maintenece, it's not only a good car, I'd dare to say it is even BETTER than a normal 944 N/A.

*ducks for incoming flame attack*

-S

944S Boyeee · 11-15-2002, 09:53 AM

Don't dare say - it's true......with proper maintanence and care, the S is obviously the better car....

......but, it depends on what "better" is. It does have a different tranny, which is considered better and it has more horses and 16 valves, so it can rev higher. The S isn't that much different than the N/A, but is slightly better - that is why Porsche put it out in the first place. N/A - S - S2 - Turbo - Turbo S, that's basically the order of "betterness" I guess.

But, it's all a matter of personal opinion. I've never driven an N/A or a S2 or a Turbo, so I can only go on what I know.

944S Boyeee

944S Boyeee · 11-15-2002, 09:58 AM

Also, Sternn - could you keep me updated on how the things you are doing to the S work out??

Just about everything on your list is what I want to eventually get done. I'm already at the stage after the head re-build. I had all my belts, gaskets, valves seals, valve springs, 8 new valves, waterpump, head gasket, etc, etc, etc, etc done. I also chipped my S.

Let em know how the K/N filter set-up works and how the NOS works out also.

Thanks

944S Boyeee

Frank B · 11-16-2002, 08:06 AM

Dude.. where are the pics of your psycho X G.F.. I'm still waiting.. .. not nice to tease people..

Frank B

Gordon Rankin · 12:23 PM

944S, not necessarily looking to buy an S right now but I am looking to understand what problems I might encounter before I do buy another 9XX series car. I was very happy with my 3 924's and am now jazzed about my 944.
I thank everyone for their input

FrankB, I dont have a Psycho Ex GF, I however do have a Psycho ex WIFE but no pictures. ???confused:

944S Boynee says:
I'd say that is a fair summation......
Are you interested in buying an S or something??
944S Boyeee: