help with seized engine

[jvandyke]

Hi all.
My son and I got an '87 924s a couple weeks ago.
Proverbial "ran when parked" condition.
I doubt it.
He's 15, this is a project for his first car.
It's got 17,000 miles on it, straight body. Needs interior work and probably should start and run sometime.
So we dragged it home. Didn't want to turn over, pulled starter, pulled belt covers, timing belt looks good, pulled plugs, put breaker bar on crank, no give AT ALL. Drained oil, not the cleanest but no sign of coolant in it, or metal bits.
So, trying to figure out how to tell why she's seized up. I'm waiting on a inspection camera to arrive to peek in the bores.
Supposedly it ran a year ago so I can't imagine the cylinders rusted shut (but I put a bunch of penetrating oil in there anyway).
Advice welcomed.
BTW the starter works but seems to be missing a bushing in the nose, maybe a bit flew into the flywheel and jammed it up? (I know, highly doubtful).
Here's some pictures.




And a video of the starter nose.
http://vid1148.photobucket.com/albums/o578/javandyke1/924s/IMG_0440_zpsps8qsi9q.mp4

[jvandyke]

I'm thinking it slipped a tooth or two and just doesn't "look" like it. I'm not sure what it would look like I expected to see some mangled teeth on the belt, could be under the crank which is the only spot I can't see without belt removal. Is there a way to tell if the cam and crank are in alignment when you can't turn the crank to check the flywheel?

[dgcantrell]

I don't think a tooth or two off is going to cause a valve strike. Probably wont' run very well but I don't think it would hit until a few more teeth. If you find the bores look good with the camera, I'd go ahead and pull the belts and cam tower to see if any of valves are bent. Any of them that are sitting a little low will probably be bent.

[bpu699]

If its valve strike it would still spin the other way...

Pretty car, by the way...

Pour in a 50/50 mix of acetone and gear oil into the spark plug holes... at least thats what I have seen other do...

[944 Ecology]

"It's got X17,000 miles on it, straight body." (X is an integer between 0 and 9).

FTFY...

The curse of the 5 digit odometer strikes again...

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by bpu699

If its valve strike it would still spin the other way...

^^

bore scope....

[pfarah]

Good luck with the car and I too love the color. BTW; am I assuming correctly that the 924S engine didn't come with the timing belt rail? The pic doesn't show one...

[jvandyke]

okay thanks, I figured a valve strike would leave a little wiggle room too, that crank won't budge even a little either CW or CCW, no movement at all
I assumed the mileage was X17,XXX as well, it wasn't advertised as low miles either, we bought it with that in mind, then found paperwork in the car (state inspection receipt) that backs it up, not that I really care about that to be honest
Will continue soak and nudge routine until the scope arrives.
There's a plate

[djnolan]

Could the clutch be stuck?

[dgcantrell]

You still should be able to turn the engine if the the trans is in neutral. Even in gear you should be able to turn the crank with a breaker bar and the car will try to move..

[jvandyke]

I'll admit for a little while I was trying to crank it with the car in gear but in gear or not, clutch in or not, no difference. There is the issue of missing (I think) bushing on the starter nose. Maybe something is jammed in the flywheel, like broken starter bushings.
Here's of video of the starter;
http://vid1148.photobucket.com/albums/o578/javandyke1/924s/IMG_0440_zpsps8qsi9q.mp4

[mikepellegrini]

Engines with bent valves turn over super easy.

And with aluminum pistons and an alusil block, I don't see the piston's seizing - at least from being rusted up.

My money would be on something jamming the crank - either on the ring gear or up front.

You could test that easy enough by taking off the timing belt and seeing if you can wiggle the cam shaft back and forth. A few teeth either way wouldn't likely hurt anything.

If the cam shaft moves and the front of the engine is clear of obstructions, I'd suspect either something dropped in the timing mark hole, by the sensors, or maybe the bit from the starter - one or the other, somehow jammed the ring gear.

[jvandyke]

okay, that makes sense, maybe I should stop pouring crap down the cylinders, I put ATF/acetone in there just now. I'll let it set if it won't hurt it while I wait on the borescope to arrive. Maybe I can use that to survey the inside of the bell housing. The thing just doesn't budge even a millimeter, nothing. I did probe the bores and it seems the pistons are all about mid stroke so that really discount the valve crunch theory. thanks for input.
A stick in the bores seems to indicate the pistons are at mid-stroke, so that lessens probability of valve hit, but I'm guessing still. I removed the "splash guard" from the front bottom edge of the bell housing and see nothing, nor do I see anything looking down in the timing window. The speed and position sensors' connectors at the top of the motor by the firewall were very broken up, pieces were laying next to the timing window but the odds of one of those sneaking in the bell housing and locking up the whole works seems a bit remote. Could still be the missing starter bushing too....

[emoore924]

Post a WTB in the parts section. Lots of used, running motors out there for small money. Probably easier (and cheaper) than dealing with this one unless it turns out to be something super easy. Besides, if you have to take it out anyway...

[jvandyke]

That is a possibility too. Will have to know what's going on eventually anyway because, well, it's fun.

[dgcantrell]

I'm still really digging that green color. That is way cool looking.

[sausagehacker]

Yeah I'd definitely just get a spare motor. Odds are, the starter broke trying to spin it.

Btw, there's no belt guard in the pic you posted (post #6)

[jvandyke]

yep, it's really growing on me, not a very good paint job at all and the hood, doors, bumpers and sunroof aren't done but hopefully we can get it respectable in the end, be nice if it ran though!

[dgcantrell]

If he were to get the updated waterpump, it comes with the posts for the guard. The guard and the nuts are quite easily had also.

Shame about the paint job. If it's not a basecoat/clearcoat job, you might be able to blocksand and buff it out.

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by sausagehacker

Yeah I'd definitely just get a spare motor. Odds are, the starter broke trying to spin it.

Btw, there's no belt guard in the pic you posted (post #6)

yep, I mistook the edge of the plastic guard for plate, there's no plate/guard thingy, I don't there is supposed to be, don't see one in the manual I have