replacement motor mounts, do no fit.

[cockerpunk]

i dropped the cross member on my turbo car to replace the motor mounts. i could not get them out without doing so, there was no way.

so in putting together the car with the new mounts, i cannot figure out a way for the car to go back together with the mounts. if i bolt both mounts to the engine, loosly, and then bring the cross member back up, the bottom threaded pins are two wide, and will not go into the holes on the cross member. by like 1/2 an inch. so then i tried screwing them to the cross member, and bringing that up to the engine, and they also do not fit, again, they are about 1/2 inch too narrow, and the engine bolts don't line up. i have also tried attaching the passenger side one, on both the motor, and the cross member, and then kinda hinging the cross member up, with the drivers side motor mount in place, and its still, about 1/2 inch too narrow and the engine bolts don't line up.

everywhere i look the engine mounts are the same right and left, but i cannot find a way that they actually bolt into the car properly.

what is the trick? the cross member by every measure i've tried, is around 1/2 inch too narrow, and there isn't enough play in the bolt holes on it to allow it to fit.

[cockerpunk]

they are the myle mounts, they measure identical to the ones i pulled out, except that they are ~1/8th inch taller and not collapsed.

i have tried turning them backwards, from the little knotch in the cross member, but that doesn't work either.

i have also tried to re-install the old ones, same problem.

also, the cross member lines up with its holes in the chassis, so its not a cross member positioning problem. my engine is either 1/2 inch too wide, or my cross member is a half inch too narrow. there is no way to position everything so the holes line up.

this is likly why i found when i investigated that the mounts were not fully bolted into the car, thus prompting there replacement. could the solid engine mount brackets on the engine be bent?

[cockerpunk]

passenger side mount in cross member:



passenger side mount loosely bolted to engine:



drivers side mount in cross member:



1/2 inch offset between mount and engine bolt holes:



its not even close, not even close at all.

[Bradical]

When I did mine I experienced the same thing. I lifted the motor up, mounted the mounts to the engine arms and then lowered the engine back down, positioning the mounts into the crossmember and moving them in to place with a pry bar.

[plyhammer]

+1 on crowbar and engine lift method

[Techno Duck]

The drivers side mount is not fully seated in the cross member. A section of the rubber mount should tuck into the recess on the aluminum crossmember. This is why the rubber mount does not line up with the engine leg.

Compare how your passenger side mount (which is correctly seated in the crossmember) looks compared to the drivers side.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

The drivers side mount is not fully seated in the cross member. A section of the rubber mount should tuck into the recess on the aluminum crossmember. This is why the rubber mount does not line up with the engine leg.

Compare how your passenger side mount (which is correctly seated in the crossmember) looks compared to the drivers side.

i have the drivers side in the notch. both are fully seated.

the engine is lifted using an engine support bar from the strut towers. i already tried mounting both mounts on the engine, and then pushing the cross-member into place, and the same 1/2 inch alignment problem was there.

1/2 inch is far to large a gap to prybar. maybe a few mm, even a 1/4 inch, but the mount simply doesn't have the motion required to both fit the engine mounting holes, and the cross member hole.

[thomasryan]

I lift the motor about 1/2" and raise the crossmember with a scissor type jack balanced in the center. You need the squared rubber tab of the mounts under the lip on the crossmember. (I clean the threads before installing new mounts and OEM mounts are more pliable than the aftermarket ones)

Without any fasteners installed, work the dome on the top of the mount into the cup of the arm on one side just a little bit then move to the other side. Raise the crossmember in increments going back and forth until the domes are seated but loose in the cups. Once the crossmember is raised to the chassis, install the crossmember to chassis bolts. The mounts should be snug but not tight.

Unloaded by means of the cross brace, you should be able to twist the mounts to get the 4 upper bolts started by hand. With the splayed design, the motor needs to be close to its rest position but you should be able to twist the mounts enough to align the upper bolts.

I like to wiggle the motor as it is lowered so it finds it's natural resting spot. There is a boss in the mount stamping that should rest in a relief in the crossmember so the mount sits flat.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by thomasryan

I lift the motor about 1/2" and raise the crossmember with a scissor type jack balanced in the center. You need the squared rubber tab of the mounts under the lip on the crossmember. (I clean the threads before installing new mounts and OEM mounts are more pliable than the aftermarket ones)

Without any fasteners installed, work the dome on the top of the mount into the cup of the arm on one side just a little bit then move to the other side. Raise the crossmember in increments going back and forth until the domes are seated but loose in the cups. Once the crossmember is raised to the chassis, install the crossmember to chassis bolts. The mounts should be snug but not tight.

Unloaded by means of the cross brace, you should be able to twist the mounts to get the 4 upper bolts started by hand. With the splayed design, the motor needs to be close to its rest position but you should be able to twist the mounts enough to align the upper bolts.

I like to wiggle the motor as it is lowered so it finds it's natural resting spot. There is a boss in the mount stamping that should rest in a relief in the crossmember so the mount sits flat.

this is similar to the plan im going to try tonight. basically im going to leave the one side connected up, and then im going to grease the boss on the engine mount, so it slides better. then i am going to bolt on the cross member, and slowly bring it up until its fully tight/seated. then im going to lower the engine, until it rests on its mounts, and due to the boss and lubrication hope it "pops" into its cup and seats properly.

[fiily]

I feel your pain, did my motor mounts in the 951 this summer, and it s-uuucked. The passenger mount went in fine, the drivers side bolts were frozen to the threads, I had to drop the a-arm on the drivers side, and chop the bolts off the mount.

Once the drivers side bolts were removed, the whole engine shifted to the passenger side and I couldn't get the driver's side motor mount realigned. I had an engine hoist holding the engine from above, and used my 3ft crowbar to pull the engine back over and lined up the bolts to the motor mount and tightened them up.

Again, nothing easy in the turbo's with all of the extra stuff lying in the way of everything.


BTW, I used dawn liquid soap to lube the mount shoulders into the crossbrace, it worked very well. From your pics you removed the a-arms, so an alignment is needed just like my 951, but I just replaced the inner & outer tie rods on both sides as part of the motor mount project, so I didn't care about dropping the a-arms, and cross member.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

this is similar to the plan im going to try tonight. basically im going to leave the one side connected up, and then im going to grease the boss on the engine mount, so it slides better. then i am going to bolt on the cross member, and slowly bring it up until its fully tight/seated. then im going to lower the engine, until it rests on its mounts, and due to the boss and lubrication hope it "pops" into its cup and seats properly.

so i did this. cross member went in very nicely once i had one bolt started. still ****ed.

even with a crowbar pulling/pushing as hard as i can without knocking the car off the jack stands, it still is off. by around 1/4 inch.

even worse, i can't just dremal the hole for the cross member larger, there literally isn't any more room to move the mount farther out, its touching the cross member on the side, its as wide as it can go.

seriously how is this possible? does my turbo have an NA cross member that is narrower or something? it doesn't fit, like these parts do not actually go together in the same car. i cannot make them fit. the cross member is too narrow, or my engine is too wide.

thinking of just buttoning down the passenger side mount, putting the nut on the drivers side, and driving it around for a while. it'd can't be worse than it was before when none of the engine mounts were bolted in.

[cockerpunk]

picture, engine fully supported through the mounts, no jacks or anything, crow bar between the rack and the mount pushed hard enough that the car moves on the jack stands, will not make it fit:



the other side is fitted fine

[cockerpunk]

im actually thinking more likely, my engine bracket is bent. the mount in the cross member is as wide as it possibly can go. its physically restrained by the U shape of the cross member, it cannot go any wider.

that must mean that the engine itself is too wide. i however see absolutely no evidence of this when looking at the bracket. it looks 100% fine.

do you need to remove the intake, turbo and such from that side of the engine to remove this bracket? it does not appear that it can be removed from below.

any other ideas?

[kdjones2000]

It looks to me that you don't have your DS mount slipped in correctly to the crossmember. It needs to tuck out and into it a bit, which it doesn't seem to be doing.

That is likely causing it to tilt too much inwards, leading to your alignment problems.

Take that mount out again, and try to slip the upper part of it into the cutout in the crossmember. Once you do that, everything should line up, at least with a crowbar.

[dgcantrell]

Try this. The cross member is not bent as it would mean your front frame rails are also bent. Forget about that being the issue. Lift the engine a bit. Attach the motor mounts to the brackets attached to the engine first as they are not slotted for adjustment. Then gently lower the everything to where the studs of the mounts just start into the slotted holes in the crossmember. You can probably get one side started just bit and wiggle the engine enough to get the other side to slip in. Once you get them both started in the holes, lower it home..

I remember changing the passenger side motor mount on my 944NA a good 20 years ago and never had any issues getting it back in. That was with the engine in the car too.

Removing the air box will let you see better on the drivers side though so that might be a good idea.

[kdjones2000]

There is no way that is going to work. You need to get the mounts properly into the crossmember, and then attach them to the support brackets.

[Techno Duck]

The drivers side engine mount is still not fully seated in the cross member.

The part of the mount circled in green should sit in the recess of the crossmember in red.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by dgcantrell

Try this. The cross member is not bent as it would mean your front frame rails are also bent. Forget about that being the issue. Lift the engine a bit. Attach the motor mounts to the brackets attached to the engine first as they are not slotted for adjustment. Then gently lower the everything to where the studs of the mounts just start into the slotted holes in the crossmember. You can probably get one side started just bit and wiggle the engine enough to get the other side to slip in. Once you get them both started in the holes, lower it home..

I remember changing the passenger side motor mount on my 944NA a good 20 years ago and never had any issues getting it back in. That was with the engine in the car too.

Removing the air box will let you see better on the drivers side though so that might be a good idea.

i already did this, it was the first method i had, and it did not work. the studs on the mount were too wide for the cross member mounting holes.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

The drivers side engine mount is still not fully seated in the cross member.

The part of the mount circled in green should sit in the recess of the crossmember in red.

it is in there, when its not being compressed by the engine. when the engine compresses the mount, it pushes it farther in and down. its over compressing the mount, because its pushing on the boss, not on the face of the mount. see the picture above when the engine is lifted, the rubber lip is in the cross member.

the mount is seated, im confident of that.

[fiily]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

The drivers side engine mount is still not fully seated in the cross member.

The part of the mount circled in green should sit in the recess of the crossmember in red.

Techo is 100% correct.

Read my quote below, you have to place the upper shoulder of the mm into the crossmember in red, just plop the mount into the mm location and make sure the mm stud is through the bottom. Don't tighten the lower stud/nut yet.

Now when you lower your engine, your upper mm threads should line up with mm bracket, if not use the crowbar to move it in place, and use dawn liquid detergent to force the upper mm rubber shoulder/lip into the crossmember cavity.

Once lined up, tighten the upper bolts snug, then start lowering the engine to compress the mm, and it will align the stud into the crossmember hole, tighten that bolt up and you should be ready to roll.

Verify your passenger mm is correctly installed too, rubber shoulder in the crossmember!




BTW, I used dawn liquid soap to lube the mount shoulders into the crossbrace, it worked very well. From your pics you removed the a-arms, so an alignment is needed just like my 951, but I just replaced the inner & outer tie rods on both sides as part of the motor mount project, so I didn't care about dropping the a-arms, and cross member.