Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 928 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
4.5 timing mark alignment issue

Started pulling down the front end on my 81 to do a timing belt service. When I went to line up the cam timing marks, I realized that I could not get the crank to line up on its mark.

It's not 180 out, as I can turn the engine over as many times as I want and the marks are still nowhere near where they need to be.

There are three machined divots in the face of the harmonic balancer, which I figured had to do something with the balancing of it. When I have the cams positioned at their respective marks, the timing tab on the water pump lines up with one of the divots. Possibly a coincidence, but I'm not sure.

Is there anything I'm doing wrong? If the timing was as far off as it seems to be, I don't think it would run. I'm just afraid of pulling it apart, lining up all of the marks, putting it back together and having it not run afterwards.

I can get pictures if ya'll want them.

Thanks!
__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto
Old 07-30-2019, 06:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982_928 View Post
Started pulling down the front end on my 81 to do a timing belt service. When I went to line up the cam timing marks, I realized that I could not get the crank to line up on its mark.

It's not 180 out, as I can turn the engine over as many times as I want and the marks are still nowhere near where they need to be.

There are three machined divots in the face of the harmonic balancer, which I figured had to do something with the balancing of it. When I have the cams positioned at their respective marks, the timing tab on the water pump lines up with one of the divots. Possibly a coincidence, but I'm not sure.

Is there anything I'm doing wrong? If the timing was as far off as it seems to be, I don't think it would run. I'm just afraid of pulling it apart, lining up all of the marks, putting it back together and having it not run afterwards.

I can get pictures if ya'll want them.

Thanks!
Lock harmonic balancer at TDC (O/T)
Water pump has absolutely nothing to do with timing.
Cam gears have little tiny "V" cut in the back side next to rear cam cover plate. Line those tiny V's with the landscape marks on the cam cover plates and string your timing belt. Do you have a Kempf tool to measure TB tension?

Send pictures and we can help more.
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)

Last edited by stepson; 07-30-2019 at 07:09 PM..
Old 07-30-2019, 06:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
The protruding tab on the water pump is what indicates that the engine is at TDC, unless I'm mistaken..

Yes, I know the cam gears have a V cut in the back of them, and line up with a raised mark on the backing plate - this is why I know that the harmonic balancer isn't where it should be.

Only thing I can think of is that the balancer has slipped.

Kempf tool is on order from Roger.
__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto
Old 07-30-2019, 07:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
http://static.ibsrv.net/autocomm/Content/forums/rennlist/1979%20928%20TBWP%20V1%20October%202011.pdf

Say thank you to Doug B 928
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 07-30-2019, 07:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1982_928 View Post
The protruding tab on the water pump is what indicates that the engine is at TDC, unless I'm mistaken..

Yes, I know the cam gears have a V cut in the back of them, and line up with a raised mark on the backing plate - this is why I know that the harmonic balancer isn't where it should be.

Only thing I can think of is that the balancer has slipped.

Kempf tool is on order from Roger.
Ok, so you are saying that the indicator arrow on the WP indicates the engine is at TDC? That would be correct.
Line the O/T up with the arrow/indicator, then set the cams with the V's to the appropriate marks and string the Timing belt. You will have to tension the belt somewhat before you turn the crank 2X to check timing else it will slip and you have to start over again. You have to turn the crank 2x around for the cam gears to come back up in the correct position.
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 07-30-2019, 07:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Skimmed through that a few hours ago when I was fumbling about trying to solve my issue.. Sadly, he didn't have the issue I'm having.

Here are a few pictures. Cam marks are lined up, crank is not.



First picture is drivers side, second is passenger. Third is obviously the balancer, with the timing marks nowhere in sight - they're sitting at roughly the 7 o'clock position.
__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto
Old 07-30-2019, 07:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I put the balancer back on to line the marks up when I turned the engine over and I put it on upside down.
__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto

Last edited by 1982_928; 07-30-2019 at 07:56 PM.. Reason: Edited on accident
Old 07-30-2019, 07:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Been there, done that.
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 07-30-2019, 07:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
All good, Jonah?
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 08-02-2019, 08:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Yep, all good. Just got the rest of the parts I needed from Roger.
Old 08-02-2019, 01:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Are you driving a 928 to breakfast?
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 08-02-2019, 01:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepson View Post
Are you driving a 928 to breakfast?
If all goes as planned. Heading home front Rogers and I have to finish the TB job and a few other things. Iíll probably be up late tonight!
Old 08-02-2019, 02:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Timing belt is on and the car runs. Just got back from Walmart with oil - it needs changed badly.

Hopefully iím able to wake up on time! Gotta leave here by 6:30..
Old 08-02-2019, 09:03 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Jonah, It was great having you there in a 928. Hopefully you can get that miss figured out. Let me know if I can help.

I have a noid light set up if you need it.
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)

Last edited by stepson; 08-05-2019 at 06:30 AM..
Old 08-05-2019, 06:24 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
I enjoyed being able to drive one!

Had a few minutes last night and I pulled the #5 plug out since it's the one that appears to be missing. Compression tested it and it has 80 PSI. Put some oil in the cylinder and it shot up to 140. The little I could see of the cylinder wall didn't look bad, but I know that doesn't mean anything. I believe the car has sat for the better part of 20 years - I know the 16 year old Yokohama's that were on it when I bought the car had full tread. Maybe it has stuck rings. I'm going to put some Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinder and soak a day or two and see if that improves anything. Might have more time tonight to test the other 7 cylinders. I'll report back when I do.

I have access to a noid light set so I'm good there!

Thanks!
__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto

Last edited by 1982_928; 08-05-2019 at 02:48 PM..
Old 08-05-2019, 02:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
The more you drive it, normally the better it will run and drive. Let me know if you need anything I might have.

ATF works pretty good as well since it is loaded with detergents.
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 08-05-2019, 02:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Jonah,

Any updates?
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 08-09-2019, 01:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Hey John! I let it soak with MM oil and it is running WAY better than it was. Haven't re-checked the compression but I will when I get back home in it on Sunday. I believe the MM oil helped a lot.

There's a car show and cruise that we go to every year in Vernon (up near Wichita Falls). Left the house in the 928 around 6:30 and just made it to the hotel about an hour ago. Car did just fine in the 105 degree heat.. I definitely need to get the AC working though.

It appears to be getting far better mileage than it did when I drove it to breakfast. Used 1/2 tank on that trip which is right at 120 miles. Coming up here, it used about 1/4 tank and the route I took was 160 miles. I'll have to fill it up tomorrow and see what exactly it got. Fixed some vacuum leaks, and also found that the vacuum advance and retard hoses were swapped.. which means that it was retarding the timing as I increased throttle! Not great for performance..

__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto

Last edited by 1982_928; 08-09-2019 at 07:53 PM..
Old 08-09-2019, 07:47 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
stepson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,685
Very nice!

AC is going to be needed for a couple of months more this year anyway.

Glad your car is running better and better. Keep us posted.
__________________
John Curry (Drift King) 928OC member
Grand Prix White 1994 GTS AT (The GTS)
Black 1989 GT (The GT) and Cobalt Blue 1989 S4 AT (The Blue Car)
Indishrot 1984 Euro S AT (The Stepson) and Black Metallic 1984 Euro S 5 speed (The Schwartz)
Old 08-10-2019, 05:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
You cant have just one.
 
1982_928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 370
Garage
Made it back without issue!

I haven't filled up since I got back, but on the trip up there, which is a GPS verified 161 miles, I used 8.04 gallons of gas, which comes out to 19.9 MPG. Not too shabby! I didn't think it would have achieved better than 14 or so. I'm definitely surprised.

My torque tube bearings were making some noise when I left. By the time I got back, the sound was much more pronounced and I think it will soon be a squeal. It's coming from the rear so I'm fairly sure its the torque converter bearings, but it's getting all of them replaced, as well as the front pump seal while its out! Car will sit until I get the parts in and I have time to do it - maybe this weekend or next.

Here it is pictured with my buddy's 78 Little Red Express, my dad's 57 Bel Air, and my step mothers 68 Camaro. I think the only other non-american car at the show was a 240z, but I had 4 or 5 people come up and talk to me that also own a 928. Definitely had a good time.

__________________
Jonah Boyd
78 928 5 speed - #111
81 928 5 speed - the "Copper Turd"
81 928 Auto
Old 08-12-2019, 02:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:25 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.