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Location: Denver, CO
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Harborman, I pulled the ground strap on your advice and cut back some of the rubber sheathing; it had no corrosion underneath and is still solid along the crimp. Thank you for the suggestion.

Airtek, also thanks for the suggestion--I'll send them a message.

I was able to dig a little deeper into several things over the weekend.

Grounds: I was able to clean all except VII, IX, XI, and XII. I'll get to those this week. I found a bit of corrosion here and there but nothing alarming. I also cleaned up the jumper area--there actually was a good bit of corrosion around there. I ordered the missing plastic cover as well.



Fuel lines: I found that the hose between the two regulators that snakes down under the manifold was leaking; glad I got to that one. I also did the U-shaped, fitting-ended hose. I was unable to do the one on the front of the block and the one to the fuel cooler; the fittings are seized. I grunted on those a bit then hit them with PB Blaster and will continue to do so before trying again next weekend. I also ordered a flare nut wrench to avoid damaging them.

After much research on proper lift procedure, I got the car up on jack stands and removed the wheels; brakes looked good. I cleaned up the moving parts (there were cobwebs on the rear calipers) and also adjusted the e-brake, nice to have it operational.



This is funky...The rear wheels had those cheap spacers under the rims. They apparently also add longer studs. Ugly.



While I had the car up, I took a look around underneath.

I'm missing the fuel pump plate (ordered one from Ebay.)



New-ish cats with sloppy welds.



These welds look and sound like the sources of my exhaust leaks.





From the cats back is nice and clean.



I'm missing everything underneath the front, but a mixture of new and used parts are on the way.



After a full Saturday of watching LSU dismantle Vandy and good progress on the car, I over-enjoyed an evening with friends then slept like a rock.
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Joe T.

'85 928S Auto "Marilyn J. Engle"

'86 Vanagon Syncro High-Top "La Llorona"
Old 09-23-2019, 10:44 AM
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Sunday, I had a bit of a dull headache and thought it best to stick to grunt work. I removed the front seats and re-lubed all of the moving parts. I took all of the carpets out and cleaned the floor boards as well. Nothing really interesting to report; I found several oxidized coins, a few nuggets of what appeared to be cat food, a grocery store receipt for a frozen pizza and a pack of cigars, and a lollipop stick.

One of the mats has seen better days. Lucky for me, there was a newer replacement in the trunk that came with the car.



I vacuumed all of the carpets and treated all interior vinyl with 3M Vinyl conditioner; the vinyl really soaked it up. I'll rub it down again in a week or so. All of the leather got a two-stage wash/conditioner product that I had in the garage. It also needs more work as all of the leather was dry as a bone.

After a deep clean.






I finished up with a hand wash and went for a Sunday drive.



I also ordered a couple of key copies from keys4classics...The driver's door lock doesn't work, and I wonder if the key is just worn out. The gas cap key goes in all the way but doesn't turn, and the black ignition key doesn't fully seat in the lock. We'll find out.

Up next I'll finish up the ground cleaning, install Hella H4s to replace the leaking Sylvania sealed beam headlights, and rebuild the front grill and spoiler area (parts deliveries permitting.)

I also need to figure out what's going with the cluster. Everything reads low--the speedo is ten miles slow, the fuel gauge is 1/4 low, the tach is around 200 RPM low...I searched archives to find info on this problem but didn't find anything. I think I just need to pull it, inspect it, clean it up, and see if that helps.

I've got an appointment with 5280 Motorsports for next Monday to check out the exhaust, flush the black brake fluid, and possibly negotiate a timing belt/water pump replacement. I haven't decided whether I'm going to do that job or not and want to see what it would cost me to let them do it.

Oh--Dart Auto Service in Denver "...no longer services 928's." They should note that on their website.
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Joe T.

'85 928S Auto "Marilyn J. Engle"

'86 Vanagon Syncro High-Top "La Llorona"

Last edited by joetiger; 09-23-2019 at 11:26 AM..
Old 09-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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Bad Ice -

Hey Joe - I've found that a headache after having a long, tall, cold one while watching your favorite football team is often the result of "Bad Ice".

It looks like you have the "Boxed" style oil cooler just in front of the radiator. Do your oil lines come directly from the engine (or Transmission) to this cooler or are they routed in series through the radiator side tank as well ? Some 32 valve 928's alternately have a single long rectangular style oil cooler. The original factory design was way over built, but because of their age and critical status to the life of the engine (or Transmission) , you should check over the cooler and both oil lines for any signs of scuffs, cuts or leakage. If any seepage is noticed in the lines you can reuse the fittings and have a hydraulic shop rebuild them.

The grille assembly on the 928 is very exposed to parking lot curbs and are regularly damaged or broken out. The parts needed to rebuild your grille are available from our forum sponsor. Once restored, you may want to consider installing a set of extended bump plates to protect "Marylin" from another mishap. Just a word of caution, most new owners will often require at least two rebuilds (don't ask) until you are familiar with how low the front air dam is to the ground.

Good Luck - Michael
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1984 928S - "Miss Purdy"
1987 911SC - "Frau Helga"
1986 930 - "Well Hung"
1975 911 Targa "Blue"

Last edited by JK McDonald; 09-23-2019 at 05:12 PM..
Old 09-23-2019, 02:24 PM
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Looks like you're making great progress keep it up! Something I remembered when I read the other day and you mention again is the spacers. You may want to verify if those are factory or not (would be part #477 501 701) These spacers would have been removed to fit the optional chain set. The factory spacers should be 21mm.



This is funky...The rear wheels had those cheap spacers under the rims. They apparently also add longer studs. Ugly.
Old 09-24-2019, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK McDonald View Post
Hey Joe - I've found that a headache after having a long, tall, cold one while watching your favorite football team is often the result of "Bad Ice".

It looks like you have the "Boxed" style oil cooler just in front of the radiator. Do your oil lines come directly from the engine (or Transmission) to this cooler or are they routed in series through the radiator side tank as well ? Some 32 valve 928's alternately have a single long rectangular style oil cooler. The original factory design was way over built, but because of their age and critical status to the life of the engine (or Transmission) , you should check over the cooler and both oil lines for any signs of scuffs, cuts or leakage. If any seepage is noticed in the lines you can reuse the fittings and have a hydraulic shop rebuild them.

The grille assembly on the 928 is very exposed to parking lot curbs and are regularly damaged or broken out. The parts needed to rebuild your grille are available from our forum sponsor. Once restored, you may want to consider installing a set of extended bump plates to protect "Marylin" from another mishap. Just a word of caution, most new owners will often require at least two rebuilds (don't ask) until you are familiar with how low the front air dam is to the ground.

Good Luck - Michael
I'll check out the oil cooler lines tonight, thanks.

I actually ordered a set of those bump plates along with the additional parts I need. I've been extremely cautious with the front end so far, just trying to get the spacial reckoning correct.

However, in the interest of full disclosure:

My primary vehicle (Vanagon) is cab-over-wheels and nothing out front. The day I brought the 928 home, I turned into my driveway and BAM! hit the garage door. Not hard enough to do any damage, but I was abruptly reminded that this car has a hood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beran earms View Post
Looks like you're making great progress keep it up! Something I remembered when I read the other day and you mention again is the spacers. You may want to verify if those are factory or not (would be part #477 501 701) These spacers would have been removed to fit the optional chain set. The factory spacers should be 21mm.
beran earms, as the title of the thread suggests, I don't know what I'm doing! You're reading my mind--the rear wheels are tucked way inside the wells right now and it just didn't look correct so I've spent part of the morning researching. I'm slightly embarrased to admit that those spacers are actually OEM. I'm going to reinstall them.

Yesterday afternoon I had a spare half hour and installed Hella H4's and replaced some rusty screws. I don't know how we survived the old days with sealed beam headlights.

I've also had an intermittent knocking sound from underneath on acceleration. I was concerned over a possible driveline issue; however, a closer look at the exhaust system revealed a torn rubber exhaust hanger on the tail pipe area--I pushed it around a bit and it made the exact knocking sound. Whew. New hangers are on the way.

I also tapped on the frozen fuel line connections and hit them with PB Blaster again.

I really need to remove the pod and check and clean instrument panel connections. Yesterday on the way home from work all warning lights were on; this morning, none.

Unfortunately for my 928 maintenance time, I'm hosting a Vanagon get-together at a brewery's Oktoberfest block party in Denver on Saturday so I probably won't get much done.

Thanks so much for all of the suggestions and tips. I should have bought a 928 years ago.



(from early last week, but you can't host a thread without including at least one picture.)
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Joe T.

'85 928S Auto "Marilyn J. Engle"

'86 Vanagon Syncro High-Top "La Llorona"
Old 09-24-2019, 07:57 AM
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Headlight Drive -

Hey Joe - Since you mentioned working on the headlights, you might also check over the headlight motor and it's drive assembly. It's internal rotating disc and electrical tracks are often neglected for long periods of time and can sometimes fail to lift the headlights into position at the most inopor-toon time. (There is a manual lift knob located on the top of the motor that can be rotated to raise the headlights in case of emergency) Don't forget to clean-up the 4 wiring connections in the sleeve just above the circle in the photo....

Also inspect the security of the pivot point ends of the short vertical drive arm located between the motor and large crosswise lift bar. If the upper "C Clip" is lost from a lack of lubrication and/or too many wear cycles - the top of this arm can come loose, fall backward and be driven into the radiator.

When I was initially going through "Miss Purdy", my headlight lift motor was intermittent. Although a new light switch helped - when pulling the drive motor for inspection and a good cleaning, I found that it's internal gearing mechanism and all the other pivot points were extremely dry. I also discovered that the short vertical drive arm was hanging on by a thread with both "C Clips" having been replaced at some point with a single twist of thin wire !!!!

One other NOTE from Greg Nichols (928 Guru) His Reference Site is just below : The c-clip is called a "lock ring" - part# 900 116 009 01 - noted as 8mm x 6mm ID the corresponding washer is 12mm x 6mm ID.

http://nichols.nu/tips.htm

Good Luck - Michael
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1984 928S - "Miss Purdy"
1987 911SC - "Frau Helga"
1986 930 - "Well Hung"
1975 911 Targa "Blue"

Last edited by JK McDonald; 09-24-2019 at 12:04 PM..
Old 09-24-2019, 11:35 AM
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Hi Michael,

Everything is pretty dusty in there. Clean and re-lube added to the list. Luckily the C-clips are intact, though.



Aside from a bit of surface corrosion, I don't see any obvious damage to any of the hoses around the oil cooler but will keep an eye out:





I pulled into my neighborhood from the work commute yesterday and noticed that the "clunk" sound from the exhaust was substantially more pronounced than it had been before. Weird. Pulled into the driveway and well, that there's your problem:



The other exhaust hanger had let go; they had both pretty much turned to dust. I put a block of wood underneath the muffler to de-stress the system. After it cooled off, I strung up some HD zip ties to hold it until the new hangers arrive. I drove the Syncro to work today.

I was happy to find several deliveries waiting for me at home.



Nice to find a situation in which the hardware is intact.





I vacuumed/cleaned out the rest of the dead leaves and got to work.





It wasn't until after I'd installed it that I found out that the bottom slat should have mounting points for the spoiler. I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it.

I was able to get the passenger side broken spoiler piece off (that sucker was ON THERE) then ran out of time. I'll remove the other side this evening. I'm hoping that I ordered a spoiler with the proper lip measurements; from my reading, that could be an issue. I'll find out tonight.

On a side note, the alternator sure does hang low. I know there's a possibility that the motor mounts are gone, but even so, why put the alternator so close to the ground? And from what I've been able to find out, belly pans for S3's are virtually nonexistent. Is there any other way of protecting components?
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Joe T.

'85 928S Auto "Marilyn J. Engle"

'86 Vanagon Syncro High-Top "La Llorona"

Last edited by joetiger; 09-25-2019 at 05:05 AM..
Old 09-25-2019, 05:00 AM
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Those little clips on the arm for the head lights can cost hundreds of dollars if they fail. If they look at all brittle replace them, cheap insurance.
As for as the exhaust pumpkin... a RMB is so much lighter and I see one in your future,he he.
Is there any other way of protecting components?[/QUOTE]
ya, plan your route carefully. You should check your suspension and confirm it is at the proper height, if not start soaking the large nuts on the shocks now. The correct ride height makes a huge handling difference.
Old 09-26-2019, 12:10 PM
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Ok on checking that ground strap. Mine looked fine, but between the inside of the braided strap where it is crimped was the problem, not on the outside under the rubber. Just thought I would point that out. Yours might be fine. I had taken a screw driver and opened up that crimped connection when I found the problem. Think I paid $40 for a replacement strap. I knew it was the problem because I had jumper-ed the cable and the car started right up.
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1986 928S
32 valve engine
All stock, automatic, 539 Weissgold Metallic, 70K original miles, Hankook Ventus 2 tires.
Previously owned: 67 Vette, 427 L88 Stingray, 74 De Tomaso Pantera L. Latest addition: 2000 BMW Z3 Roadster
Old 09-27-2019, 05:08 AM
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Thanks again for the suggestions, much appreciated. I wrestled with the new spoiler on Thursday night and got it installed; happy to report that it fit perfectly. I also received a fuel pump cover and got that on...Sometimes it's the little things.

We had an Oktoberfest Vanagon meetup this past weekend in Denver; my wife drove our "other" German car out. It got a lot of attention.



I had a shop flush the brake fluid and patch up the exhaust yesterday; running much quieter now and the brakes are functioning properly (previously were a little stiff--the system needed to be bled.)

Other than that, the timing belt needs to be done (scheduling an appointment with a shop today hopefully) and I'm continuing down the list of a million tiny things...
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Joe T.

'85 928S Auto "Marilyn J. Engle"

'86 Vanagon Syncro High-Top "La Llorona"
Old 10-01-2019, 09:18 AM
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When I lived in Vail some years ago, I had my DeTomaso Pantera out there. Lots of nice mountain roads to enjoy the car. The 928 should be a lot of fun. Unfortunately the population there has probably quadrupled since I lived there. I noticed that when I was in the Denver and Vail area last Spring. Good luck with the car!
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1986 928S
32 valve engine
All stock, automatic, 539 Weissgold Metallic, 70K original miles, Hankook Ventus 2 tires.
Previously owned: 67 Vette, 427 L88 Stingray, 74 De Tomaso Pantera L. Latest addition: 2000 BMW Z3 Roadster
Old 10-03-2019, 09:14 AM
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hey harborman - yep traffic here is the worst - worst planning and road maintenance i know of - if you want to drive in the mountains do it on a weekday..preferably early in the week - it seems no one works on fridays around here
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Old 10-03-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honerboys View Post
hey harborman - yep traffic here is the worst - worst planning and road maintenance i know of - if you want to drive in the mountains do it on a weekday..preferably early in the week - it seems no one works on fridays around here
Yes, A great place to have a sports car with many nice mountain roads and fantastic scenery all around. I noticed a Toll Lane on I-70 East bound maybe near George Town or Idaho Springs. Never saw anything like that on an interstate. Was not there before population explosion. A nice ride is Denver to Vail, then to Leadville, over Independence Pass, down to Aspen and hit Glenwood Hot Springs pool. As they say in Aspen, "the Billionaires chased all the Millionaires down valley". Going to be a BMW Z3 meet there next summer.
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1986 928S
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All stock, automatic, 539 Weissgold Metallic, 70K original miles, Hankook Ventus 2 tires.
Previously owned: 67 Vette, 427 L88 Stingray, 74 De Tomaso Pantera L. Latest addition: 2000 BMW Z3 Roadster
Old 10-04-2019, 09:18 AM
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the toll lane is so folks with $$$ and don't mind paying can bypass the unwashed masses when coming down from skiing - now that i'm retired, i ski during the week and don't have to worry about it - hey joetiger when you make the list of a million tiny things let me know what you need - i have a bunch of parts laying around here i need to get rid of
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84 928 S
Old 10-04-2019, 02:14 PM
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honerboys, thanks! I still need a few little things to at least make it complete.

I received a box of such little things last week.

Fader knob (doesn't work, but I wanted that little stalk covered)



Rear seat pull--actually the little metal anchor that keeps the pull from falling out.



This shifter handle is not OEM but it is leather and far better than the plastic carbon fiber monstrosity that was there before. I'm totally aware of, and okay with, Porsche parts being expensive but $480 for a shifter knob was more than I could rationally accept. The plastic button is lame but the knob matches the interior at least.



I really should have cleaned the IX and VII grounds before I went for emissions testing...Failed due to NOx being just barely over. Went home and cleaned those grounds and the idle settled down beautifully, motor's running much better now. I believe I would have passed if I'd done it before.

Also I spent some time this weekend installing a missing bushing on the sunroof and installing the inside cover. Then I added a pair of 928 Motorsports spoiler protection plates and re-soaked the interior in vinyl conditioner and leather conditioner.

I dropped the car off on Monday at Eurosport Automotive in Arvada; the head man's been working on 928's since 1978. They're doing the timing belt, water pump and associated bits, making sure it's good for emissions, and generally checking it over. Nice folks.



I considered doing the belt myself, but I'm still within my budget for the car even with the cost of the service. And, I really didn't want it to be down for an extended time in my garage during such a great time of year for driving it (the exception being tomorrow's expected snowstorm, of course.)

What's left on the living list:

Wiper cowl cover and seal
Belly pan
fix the passenger's wiper sprayer
cracked air filter housing
clean the engine up and repaint the intake
Hood liner
tiny leak from the trans--hose I think.
gauges reading 10% low across the board
HVAC repair (A/C doesn't work, strange noises on some heat settings)
Stereo update
Paint detail/restore

...and of course whatever new issues Eurosport tells me about.

Getting there!
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Joe T.

'85 928S Auto "Marilyn J. Engle"

'86 Vanagon Syncro High-Top "La Llorona"
Old 10-09-2019, 12:47 PM
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You are doing a great job on this one, but a couple things need to go to the top of your list; timing belt and water pump, replace rubber fuel injection hoses.

85 is an interference engine, timing belt breaks or slips teeth and valves meet pistons.

Given the state of some of the rubber parts its a fair guess you may have original and ready to fail fuel injection hoses. If you are really lucky you might smell a gas leak before a fire, but usually doesn't work that way.

One of the other 928 owners makes an improved cowl cover.
Belly pans are extremely rare, something to consider fabricating.
Do it once, replace all the hoses and check valves to the sprayers.
I think the air filter box may be NLA, so fixing the crack might be the option.
Do a top end refresh, new vacuum lines and seals, many issues will go away, clean injectors too.
Several good sources for replacement headliners, good write ups on how to do it here.

Good luck, its fun to drive and fun to fix.
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