Need Input on PCA!
 

Need Your Input on PCA national and local chapters. I was wondering what your impression was on PCA in general and your local chapter in particular?

Do any of you get involved in the events?

What do you think of PANORAMA?

How about your chapter’s monthly mag?

What would you like to see PCA national and regional chapters change?

I'm happy with PCA both National and Regional. PAno is good, especially the Tech section ;)

PCA is fine. Local=Pacific N'West Region. Is quite active, both
socially and on the road & track.

Pano is good; could use more touring articles. Our local 'rag',
The Spiel, is enjoyable and hi-quality.

macreel

Hello!
Although the 928 is the exact model that turned Porsche from being an obscure, low volume niche marketed small displacement sports car into a company with a reputation of that of a top of the line exotic car manufacturer and the 928 was produced for 17 years without substantive style change, the PCA treats the 928 as though it never existed. Panorama is exactly worthless to a 928 owner. It exists to sell Boxsters.

DFWX,
Sorry, but I need to disagree a bit. Different regions treat certain "cars" differently. Not right, but it does happen.
PCA needs to address what it members want. Lets face it, there are way more members who own "911's" and Boxsters right now. Hard to do a balancing act to keep everyone happy. With ~60K members it’s difficult. There are some tech questions for 928 published in Pano. I've seen a few articles over the past few years (one about the GTS and one about modifying a 928). There is also the web site to ask questions (www.pca.org).
I know it’s not perfect, but it’s not "worthless" IMO.

John Veninger
PCA Technical Committee-928

928 trivialized
 

Hello!
I do not boycott the PCA and am a paid member, plus a member of the 928 club and attend PCA functions as well.
The historic significance of the 928 in Porsche history can not be understated in reality, but it is essentially ignored.
People forget the era.
EPA and DOT standards crashed down on the auto industry in 1972 with GM behind the wheel of this. Ford was shattered and Chysler needed a government bail out just to struggle by selling Japanese powered disposable "K cars". American Motors folded shop.
GM, which has pulled out of racing in the early 60s, saw opportunity to gut the auto industry in political action. Beyond smashing domestic competitors, they smashed the European auto industy even worse.
The horsepower drop between 1971 and 1972 averaged about 40% for most cars, though torque was less affected, and the crash standards resulted in horrid square jutting out bumpers. The European cars, which were designed for small engine power and sleek lines also were devastated. Within a decade, 80% of independent manufacturers in Europe also closed.
Particularly vunerable was Porsche. Figuring if they could not sell air cooled rear engine cars (Corvair), then no one should, GM took after all rear engine designs seeking their ban as supposely dangerous.
While most other rear engine manufacturers also had front engine models in their history, Porsche did not. It only had air cooled, small to medium displacement air cooled rear engines. Porsche was a small, niche market building what many saw as merely custom bodies, spartan VWs with over carberated VW motors with hot cams. In that era 911s were certainly not in the top class supercar league.
The 928 project was a billion dollar do or die gamble of Porsche. With its first stage release of the 924, the 928 was unlike any Porsche ever built. Rather than spartan, the interior was luxurious. It had massive V-8 torque, perfect 50/50 balance, was a cutting edge design in appearance, pioneered early computer management, and defied the seeming demand for jutting out square bumpers - and not only was the only Porsche to earn the company "fastest production car" status year after year, but redefined Porsche as a, if not THE premier production exotic car manufacturer.
Despite the $150,000+ (in today's dollars) price of the 928, I have no doubt Porsche lost money on every one sold due to the enormous costs of tool and die work. But the 928 brought them into the showroom and sold tens upon tens of thousands of 924, 944s and 911s. The 928 added vast value to the trademark and dealership value of the world and license of "Porsche".
The threat of putting twin turbos on the 928 - certainly possible given the 944 met EPA ppm emissions - lead GM to throw in the towel to avoid the massive retooling costs and then overall radical reaction of the insurance industry, environmentalists and such if 500 horsepower cars were coming off assembly lines in competition in the mid 80s. Giving in to the 928 turbo threat, GM released the stylish but sluggish Fiero. The battle was over and the 928 had saved the 911 for being outlawed for safety issues and public perceptions of safety.
It is questionable if Porsche could have survived. let alone become the super car company, against the GM drive at the rear engine 911 without the 928 counter attack by Porsche and the 924/944 little sisters coming from the project. It is certain that it was the 928 that defined - worldwide - Porsche as a super car for the first time.
Name any other Porsche that was "Fastest production car in the USA" and "in the world". And for how many years was that for the 928?
For the 911, the count is easy - ZERO.
I am often stunned at the PCA gunning down Porsche that are not of some rear engine ala 911 concept. For example, the Cayenne is a stunning, awesome SUV - 450 horsepower and a price notably lower than other turbo Porsche with far more features and production costs. It also cost Porsche hundreds of millions of dollars to design, tool and die for.
The 928, year after year, was "THE FASTEST", despite being a mid-steel body, 4 place luxury cruiser. Its production run as a semi-exotic car spanned 18 years using virtually the identical body, chassis and power train - unequalled by any other manufacturer - ever.
Porsche executives should be required to pass a 1977 Porsche 928 each day and give a nod of respect as they own their jobs to the 928.
To this day, the 928 is an awesome car. The last models at 360 horsepower and 3600 pounds does not also recognize the incredibly long horsepower and moreso torque curve.
Back to the wall, a tiny German company scrounged up a billion dollars in the ultimate gamble - did a 100% shift in design and definition of what a Porsche is from the ground up - and conquered the automotive world.
Why don't I ever read that in any PCA or Porsche material? Why not boast of the historic genious and extreme boldness of the Porsche company in the 928, rather than "we added 2.1% horsepower and reduced weight 1.7%" to the 911 as the Porsche historic genious?
Where does Porsche turn when the Boxster conservative yuppies tire of the identical model year after year that does not really have much in uniqueness, boldness or creativity remaining in them?
The answer, of course, is the endless 911. Or is it?

Porsche and the PCA should NOT be pleased to see that their super car that smashed Contach and Lotus now sells used for 1/5th to 1/15th their counterparts. Rather than always presenting the 928 as an history superstar - therefore supporting the concept that all top of the line Porsches of any vintage are and will always be superstars, instead Porsche and the PCA treat the Porsche 928 in the manner than Ford treats the Edsel.

Disregard for the 928 and the vast historic significance of it - and boldness, creativity and "take on the whole world" attitude behind the project is long term marketing stupidly by the PCA and Prosche.
I just saw a supercharged, super clean, LATE MODEL 928 S-4 that could not $10,000, were a stock Contact in average condition brought $85,000. 928s in good, running condition, are being gutted for a transmission now.
Somehow, supporting the reality that Porsche mega-costly super cars lose their resale value 10 times faster than any other manufacturer seems particularly tactically stupid - to be candid of it. And foolish.
The 928 is still a stunning automobile. I take my 928 with a mid customized body to a local drag strip now and then to watch the races. It draws crowds standing still. Heads turn with the 32V 4 cammer fires up, and there will be a "holy s...t!" when I pop the hood on what is the most awesome and gorgeous Porsche motor ever built.
It would seem prudent for the PCA and Porsche to revere the 928, for profit and preservation of Porsche in the long run, if for no other reason.
For a decade and a half, the 928 was the top dollar Porsche and reaching technically into 1995 - a decade ago. What did those buyers get in the long run from Porsche?
An 18 year runs - 1977 to 1995 - and try to find an article in Panorama about the 928? All found, if any comment, is that the 928 was "a bit on the heavy side" and "outdated".

Truly, what does PCA or Porsche offer for 928 owners other than the advise to buy a 911?
Porsche faced oblivion as a minor company for its singular focus upon the 911 series. Fortunately, they were wise enough and brave enough for the 928 gamble. If current only 911s forever retro-thinking continues indefinitely, Porsche will face a surprise downturn in the future with no bailout option other than being bought out - as happened to Lambro after being whipped up by the 928 - even when the 928 was a decade old design.
I suspect, though, one reason the 928 is so disregarded is due to its enduring potency as a performance car, particularly the latter models in contrast to any under $100K new Porsche of any model now offered.
The horsepower and torque curves of the 928 S4 and GTS series is stunning and relatively equated to over 400 horsepower and 500 pounds torque to other V-8s to this day, and vastly moreso in contrast to any 400 horsepower 6 cylinder as a torque issue.

A person can have an immaculate, particularly low mileage early 90s 928GTS with a legal Borla exhaust and adjustment to the air fuel mixture within legal range, and have a 2+2 GT car with a .31 coefficent drag, perfect 50/50 weight balance, that will do the quarter mile in 11.5 seconds with a real top speed of 190 mph - out drag race a new King of the Hill Vette and out corner a Lotus - and have that all for under $30K. Maybe that is why PCA and Porsche wish these old 928 scraped.
It is unfortunate that the PCA and Porsche do not take the position that their top of the line cars are always of top of the line interests and top of the line valve.
I do not boycott Porsche or the PCA, but am stunned by the foolish attitude towards the 928. It seems long term marketing slow suicide and is the strongest proof that Lambo, Ferrari and Lotus all are superior given subsequent interests, support and resale value.
The greatest single mistake was for Porsche and the PCA to deny that the Cayenne was of 928 legacy. Had this been done, it would have given a zillion dollars in memoribilia value of the vastly famous 928, which for over a decade was the poster car on nearly every law, medical and MBA college student in the country as why there were pursuing their high income educations.

Instead, Porsche and the PCA denied it was of 928 legacy (and therefore no legacy at all), and then PCA picked at it. Bad name for the SUV. Too heavy. Not Porsche like. Bad decision to make a deal for a like model with VW, etc. etc. - all which added up to "it ain't a 911 so it ain't really a Porsche."

Porsche is what it is because of the 928. Without the 928, it likely that Porsche would have been bought out by GM as a bankrupted company circa 1985.
Mark

Not to go on too much of this, remember the era of the 928. It was the muscle car era. 500 horsepower motors in taxi cab chassis. Even the Europeans were increasingly going big cubic inches. Yet it was Porsche, after the 1972 DOT and EPA crash that produced the true "muscle car" in the 928. A rumbling V-8, but also extremely good in corners and luxurious too.
Watch TV ads and see where America is heading on performance cars. It is a return to the muscle car. The new Mustang a huge hit. Chrysler and even Cadillac - V-8 muscle.
The "sports car" market ebbs and flows in the USA.
More people own 911 and Boxsters, no issue of that.
Lastly, the PCA is the ONLY organization that has never responded to a tech question - just a comment of that...
The Dallas Area has LOTS of Boxsters and a fair number of 911s. Yet it is a volitile image trend of professionals who want a conservative appearance with an upward mobility appearing name. I suspect most Boxsters buyers lease or finance.
The danger is if that niche group who have little interest in actual performance, but rather a conservative appearance upper end semi-exoic car they can afford by monthly payments (meaning not a Lambo, Ferrari or top BMW) decide the Boxster is out of fashion. Sales could plummet quickly. What is the Porsche back up plan?
The USA auto industry is increasing offering and selling front V-8 rear wheel muscle cars. Two doors. Four doors. Even sedans. And most are selling fast at inflated prices.
Does Porsche have a response? Or is it agreeable to only being an alternative to mid and rear engined Japanese imports? I see Porsche as getting on dangerous ground. Bad timing on the SUV - just bad luck. But a sound idea.
Exactly how difficult would it be, having the tooling for both the Cayenne and the 928, would it be for Porsche to put that 450 horsepower V-8 of the Cayenne into a front engine 2+2 at 3,300 pounds, rather than a 2 1/2 ton SUV? It would require little design, tool and die work to produce.

Actually, my take on it as viewed from the Windy City Region is that if 928 owners contributed articles, they'd get published. In short, we're under-represented because fewer of us step forward. Our regional newsletter post ads begging for content on any type of Porsche; it's the 911 and Boxster owners that respond.

Emanuel

DFWX - as the managing editor for PCA's Maverick region SLIPSTREAM rag your above post on the 928 is really good. It has passion and with a few very minor edits would make for a great article which I would like to publish! Please e-mail me your thoughts to mhollowa@nch.com. I would like to get it into the Sept or Oct issue.

BTW - there will be a third annual "Shark Dinner" for 928's in Sept (but not exclusively) - check out the maverick PCA website for details.

Rambling on...
Do I think a new version "928" should be released?
No, the 928 has been effectively killed as a status car and could not bring the price.
I do believe it a terrible mistake for Porsche to not rebody the 928 in 1988 or with the release of the 5.4 360 hp 32 valve, 4 cam motor. They merely would have needed flatten the roofline a bit, more fender flair and rise to give a bit of hood drop down look with a tad of a slant nose, added rocker panels as a ground effects appearance, a kicked up tail with different wing, and make the interior less lavish and more techno.

I have no idea how what Porsche should do. With even Porsche enthusiasts going after the Cayenne, Porsche is getting into a corner in terms of design and marketing versitility - which time to time in the auto industry now means survivability. Issuing all-new models is extremely risky given the billon dollar set up costs...
Not given the Cayenne a "9" number was a mistake. Calling the Boxster an Boxster made sense as it focused upon a recognized engine design (Boxer motor).
It would have been wiser marketing to call it something such as the
957 SV (not being trapped by the "SUV" perception), with a "Cayenne" edition, thus allowing a new name for the edition if Cayenne did not work and offering more variety within the same model by having different model names, while the same number (such as 911 widebody, 911 turbo, 911 GT1 etc.) Thus 957 SV, 957 SVT (turbo) and other edition names following as well.
Not many people every heard of a Cayenne and nothing identifies that to Porsche.
Porsche could drop the Cayenne to the ground with a 2+2 GT body in the 3,400 pound range with 450 turbo horsepower for an all wheel drive top end performance road car and numbers that go up against the other 4 wheel drive exotics. Ot they wisely could just bump it up to 5.0 for 500+ hp in an all wheel drive performance road GT.
Would you want a 520 horsepower alloy V-8 Porsche 2+2 all wheel drive
195 mph GT? Bet you would. Even if the motor is up front.
I don't think Porsche made a 948, did it? 9 - like most model Porsche, 4 - for 4 wheel drive and 8 for cylinders. Or Porsche could go bolder and go V-12 with half again the Cayenne motor and again go for "FASTEST PRODUCTION CAR SOLD IN THE USA" with other than a half million dollar car that actually is semi-mass produced.
The 928 gave Porsche parity with Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin for a few years and in a model that was not just for the super rich. If I were Porsche, I would make that the goal again. For 3/5th the price of a Ferrari, you could buy a Porsche that is faster and is a 2+2 fastback.

dude - can you take a breath for a minute? You had me at hello!

OK, more...
Image sells cars. "GT" and "Z" are two well recognized designations in the USA. All "Z" cars are 2+2 fastbacks. Few actually know what GT stands for, other than something about performance rather than grand touring.
Porsche could declare it is entering the "Z" car market, dropping its Cayenne low and putting on a highly stylized, somewhat more conservative late 90s GT1 look. A 3,200 to 3,400 pound 2+2 fastback
with 450 horsepower and V- torque, though it would be wise to go at least 5.0 to outdo the Americans and then over 500 horsepower along with all wheel drive (though maybe that an optional model).
Thus, it would be the 948 GTZ.
Porsche could claim, accurately, that it was the fastest "Z" car in world history and faster than such as Nissan turbo Zs, the latest non-turbo Ferrari and essentially everything else such as BMW, Viper, Vette on the road.
Where it can not sell its Cayenne for $100K, that would sell in the over $125K but under $150K market, for which it would have techno and stylized interior, but not leather, and would carry a couple extra hundred pounds of steel in the mid-section for cost savings and weight.
Of course, Porsche could offer aftermarket kits of all kinds for this.

Not just a 500+ horsepower 2+2, but all wheel drive. Does any one question that all wheel drive is the future of exotic performance cars?

Ha...
Porsche could then put its Boxster motor upfront, have a bit more radically stylized, more cramped 2+2 in turbo and non turbo form, also a "Z" car, and a "9" designation, all wheel drive, and repeat its glory years - having the 911, 911 Turbo, Carrera series, GT rear engined series, a thundering 2+2 all wheel front engine, and 6 cylinder front engine normal and turbo 4 wheel drive - without huge tooling costs as they have the Cayenne to work off of.
THAT exact formula took Porsche to the top of the charts and adding the 4 wheel drive to a BIG motor in the line up, with baby sisters to it, gives the full and diverse showroom dealers like. People come to look at the expensive ones, but most drive away in a neat little sister. With that diverse of showroom, they could probably rename and a bit reskin the Cayenne as a 5.0 and absolutely not call it a Cayenne and sell those too.

OK, finally, I will stop!

Your rant doesn't make a lot of sense, and ignores some Porsche facts. For instance, the 928 in no way shape or form saved Porsche from being bought out. in the 80s, the 944 pulled their fat from the fire, and in the 90s the next generation entry level model did it - the Boxster.

Also, Porsche stopped doing number designations in the 80s, preferring to go with names. The 911 was renamed the Carrera in '84 - people just continued to call it the 911. The Boxster was the first all-new model since that choice to come out, and that's why it's known by it's name rather than type designation - they didn't bother coming up with a name for the 944 (and it's derivative the 968) or the 928 because they were on the road to discontinuation already. Since then it's been Carrera, Cayman, Cayenne - I don't think they'd though of the alliteration thing when they named the Boxster.

Lastly, my personal feeling is that the 928 should have been positioned as a limited-edition flag-ship model once the company realized they weren't replacing the 911. As you said, the flagship cars get people into the dealerships, where they buy the models they can actually afford and leave the supercars for the heavy hitters, like the Carrera GT does today.

This also lets them justify continuing to develop the line as a research platform, letting technology trickle down to the other models over time. This was already happening with the 928 - it's air intake and Bosche DME injection worked it's way into the 3.2L Carrera, it's Weissach axle was the basis for the 993 suspension and continues with the 996/997 cars, and the 4-valve technology used in the current flat six was pioneered in the 928 - it's engine design was also copied in miniature for the 944 and 968 throughout it's life.

Anyway, the smart thing would have been to limit production of the 928, keeping demand up while helping to defray the development costs of technology going into the lesser models. Selling 2000 cars a year is a disaster - unless you only planned to sell 2000 :). It also would have kept prices up, which (perhaps perversely) would have increased demand; more high-end car buyers would have bought them if they hadn't made such poor investments. The Ferrari supercar sales model is to build one fewer than they think they can sell - and it works.

Emanuel

In my view, the 928 sold the 944 just as the Carrera sells Boxsters. Maybe we are in agreement with that, and I fully agree that even at their price, the 928 was a money loser itself in terms of automobile sales and could not be anything but one.
My view is that it was the combination of the 928 and 944 Turbo that caused GM to throw in the towel for its own purposes in that Porsche could have opened a hornet's nest across the auto industry. In that era, there were both open and closed negotiations over horsepower limits, performance limits, design limits etc in the early DOT and EPA regs years and GM was the heavyweight to the extreme and Porsche virtually non-existent directly, but of indirect huge nusance potential.
The reality that a small company like Porsche raising the massive, massive sum to tool virtually from ground up is an amazing feat - and they pulled it off (rather than folding with an Edsel result).
The 928 also radically departed from all previous Porsche and not merely in being front engined, but extremely (even excessively) lavish for the era.
What your comment disregards is the political-legal DOT/EPA battle going on at the time.
Ferrari is its own world. Generally, supercars are for the purpose of selling lesser models on the reputation of the brand. The 944 did not appear as a supercar in movies or as a supercar on posters. The 944 did not bring Porsche the supercar imagine, the 928 did.
The 928 directly was a money loser. But it was a huge success in the value of the Porsche name, Porsche logo merchandising and the value of a Porsche dealership license. As for income from car sales, it was the 944. But profits for a manufacturer are not limited to car sales.
The 928 also gave Porsche a diverse line up, more than it has now.
I believe Porsche very deliberately limited the 928 production as they certainly lost money on each one sold.
Do you believe Porsche actually made $$ on the GT1 even at $500,000 each? It is impossible.
Porsche is an expensive car and people buy the logo on the car, not just the value of the machine.
Somehow, I think we agree on principle, though possibly not historical significance.
What supercar did Porsche make - where supercar is defined by public perception - prior to the 928?
Of all Porsche in the used market, my view is that the unquestioned best deal for performance, support, parts and looks are the Turbo 944. But, just as the 928 sold 944, so did the 944 turbo sell 944 (non-turbo).

Actually, this began with a rant of lack of support for recognition of the 928, which I contend was a watershed success for Porsche in terms of general public perception of what Porsche is to this day. An older guy, I am a bit familar with the political/legal muscle of the early 70s. GM devastated the car industry, though people blame environmentalists, insurance companis and safety freaks.
Prior to the 928 (or I suppose the 924 early release), Porsche was a small niche market of German sports car and little more to the public. What was the Porsche world recognized supercar prior to the 928?

Thanks for your thoughts.

DFWX,

I love your passion for the 928 :)

DFWX, how can someone not take the DOT/EPA issues of the time into account? They were the reason for the 928 coming into existence! Porsche was worried that the 911 wouldn't meet emissions and safety standards and put the 928 into development, remember.

With regard to Porsche limiting production, bull-dinky. The car was built to replace the 911 as their bread-and-butter model - they wanted to sell as many as they could. As early as 1980, Porsche decided on a niche role for the 928 and kick-started development of the 911 again in earnest when they saw the 928 wouldn't sell well enough.

As far as the 928 being the flagship model and standard bearer, that can be argued. The 911 is what most people think of when they think Porsche, and the 911 turbo - as the ultimate 911 - is always seen as the ultimate Porsche - the "Porsche world supercar." The 928 showed up in Scarface and Risky Business, but that's in no small part due to the 911 turbo not being sold in the US at the time.

The 928's problems started from within - fact is, the Porsche family never liked it. They wanted the 911 to remain the top model since it was designed by Butzi and an evolution of the founder's 356 design. Making the 928 the top model turned representation of the Porsche name over to hired guns, and they weren't big on that idea. It's amazing the 928 is as good as it is, considering it's the red-headed step-child of the family. I find it amusing that the 996 is essentially a rear-engined 928 - a 4-valve/cylinder watercooled GT with Weissach suspension. :) It's taken the 911 years to get to were the 928 started, and more years to catch up. Think what amazing cars they'd be making now if the 928 had replaced the 911 back in the 70s.

-E

Any 928 lover (or Porsche lover in general) should get their hands on a copy of Project 928; the book covers not only the development of the 928 with lots of cool pics, but also the general tone of the industry and Porsche at the time of the 928's development and introduction.

As for the PCA, I enjoyed membership with the Oregon Region for several years as a 928 owner. Sure, there were a few air-cooled owners who "seemed" snobby toward the water-pumpers; but I didn't join for their approval and I suspect it was more ignorance toward the model or dis-interest on their part. Some folks are just single model enthusiasts, others are single brand, others are anything with wheels.

The PCA is like any club, you get out of it what you put in. I left PCA membership simple because I wasn't finding the time to attend and enjoy membership, probable going to join the fray again in my new local even tho the local region looks small.

time for me to add my $9.28 to this topic

I am constantly amazed at how little is mentioned about the 928 outside of forums... Excellence, 911 & Porsche World etc should just be called 911 & Boxster magazines... maybe 2-3 times a year I see an article that only rehashes the same generic bs
lets be honest .. the 928 would have easily rivaled sales of the 911 if it weren't for the price
a 77-78 928 cost $28-30, that was 3 TIMES the price of the best V8 vehicles in the US, a 95GTS was $100k+

that being said, the 928 was pure genius in that the innovations it brought to the auto world continue today:
Weissach transaxle
passive rear wheel toe-in
neoprene bumper covers
tilt wheel w/moving cluster to ensure sight of gauges
the 1990 S4 was the 1st car with STANDARD dual airbags

and you can basically thank Audi for the 924/944/968 series.. but I'll save that for another day

When a car company is owned by an individual or family, they build cars as they wish to their own desires - resulting often in the best and worse designs, and for Porsche that is the 911. It has always been the 911 back to when Porsche after creating the VW decided he wanted a souped up VW with a custom body - which is what an early Porsche basically was.
Of course, whoever owns a car company can do as they wish...
It is clear they did not really care for the 928. Once the fear of outlawing of rear engines passed with GM releasing the Fiero, it was essentially the end of the 928 in any development with only minor - very minor - changes. For 18 years no substantive change in the body, chassis or interior.
But, then, to Porsche the 928 really is not a Porsche. It was exactly everything a 911 was not and visa versa. Thus, with the 911 out of the water, Porsche to a to-hell-with-that-thing, and just ran out the 928 and 944 series until they were such an old and repeated body style sales fell off.Porsche had been arguing on behalf of and then defending the rear engine, rear wheel combination for decades and stuck with it.
Endlessly more style 911 models over the years -so many now it like trying to count stars in the sky. Wide body, semi-flaired fenders, no flairs, turbo, targa, convertable, slant nose, whale tail... then change the body a bit and also give the 911 names, Boxster, Carrera...
I guess if I owned a car company, I would make the car I wanted to make too.
Where I believe the 928 fits in the history of Porsche and automobiles in general is my contention that the 928 saved the rear engined car, and is what defined Porsche as a supercar in the minds of the public.
Would it have worked as ongoing lines if Porsche had reskinned the 928 and particularly popular 944 series? The probably answer of Porsche was "who cares about those, they are not really Porsche, they were just a necessary concession and diversion."
What if Porsche had but the 944 turbo to the 928? The bore, stroke, heads, rods, pistons identical? The result would have been a 500h horsepower GT 2+2 unlike the world had ever seen in the mid 80s.
Such is the project among all the 928s I now have.
Now having a 928 with the early 4.5 V-16 motor with a turbo, I can comment that such a combination makes for an radically fast muscle car given the generally superior torque and horsepower curve of the 928.
The next step is to replace the 4.5 16V with a 32 valve, 4 cam 5.0 in turbo form and with the modern engine management (TEC 3) in a 1986 1/2 with the dual piston discs, dual clutch plates etc, and to somewhat modify the body on the front with an old aftermarket kit (discontinued) for different headlight profile (hidaway), wider flairs and updated nose, with a tad of flair to the rear fenders, with it already having CUP wheels...
This is the threat Porsche had as a retailiation if their 911 was outlawed - a threat then did not have to execute and instead just dropped front engined models and back to only the 911 in all its forms. Yet I suspect, that although now all of 20 year old designed, that car (a 32 V turbo 928) is a potent as any 4 seater made in the world today - and it was a car Porsche could have off the line in under 30 days as all the components and design work done in the 1/2 928 motor as is the 944 turbo.
It was the 928 and only the 928 that earned Porsche "world's fastest" and a fair number of times. It could have kept doing so if Porsche had cared to do so. Easily with the 944 turbo setup.
Would a turbo charged 32 valve 5.0 928 have been such an incredible supercar?
I should know in about 3 months...

Have you checked out Rennlist? They have several supercharged 928s there, and at least one turbo-charged version. The project that most interest me, though, is a 32-valve car that's been modified to add VarioRam like the 968. This strikes me as the most probable course of evolution for the car had Porsche continued with it.

Emanuel

I have read much of supercharged 928s. A neat set up, but there are drawbacks to superchargers - though also for turbochargers as well. A supercharger is the easiest power up for a 928 and certainly for early ones with lower compression.
I agree with you that the VarioRam is the direction it would have gone. The intakes on 928s essentially are tuned tunnel rams and are one major reason for the excellent torque and horsepower/torque curve. Porsche work on the 911 had lead them to have to find out to max out power from a relatively small, air cooled (loose clearance) motor beyond just hot cams and over caberation - leading to understandings of intake flow, "sonic wave" of intake etc - Development of the 928 is not devoid of earlier developmental work on the 911.

For a while, exotic customizing of 928s was not that rare. Such kits and interests increasingly vanish with time as the car does not have the value for the costs involved. How many body kits remain being offered? Two I can find and the "GREAT" ones are long off the shelf and no longer available.
1/2 turbo style superchargers and to a lesser extend top mounted positive displacement superchargers seem a not-that-rare selection, and have seen a double supercharger set up and twin turbo in photos.
The stroker kits are so ungodly expensive as to just not be realistic to the value or result.
I just aquired an 86 1/2 5 speed with dual disc clutch that was retro fitted by that owner with an early 4.5 for its lower compression and much lower costs when his 32 valve 5.0 bit the dust. He claimed this was his 4th turbocharged 928 project and the most successful - mainly due to adding a TEC-3 engine management system for ignition and the fuel injection. It has a single Garrett turbocharger that he custom plumbed with wastegate of course, a TEC-3 stand alone engine management system and TEC-3 discharge ignition replacing the distributor, and 42# injectors also controlled by the TEC-3. It also came with Porsche CUP wheels. Interior ragged out, needs paint...
It is EXTREMELY powerful in a muscle car sense, enormous pulling power and goes through 1st and 2nd nearly as fast as you can shift - and it has the long gears, not the early low ratios, so that means it is really building speed. It is an incredible car to drive. More accurately, it is the fastest car I have ever driven in my life, and I have had some fast cars. But it also is a muscle car - the only road competent, excellent cornering, extremely stable and great suspension and brakes V-8 muscle car I ever drove - or even knew ever existed.
However, that it is a 16 valve like all mine are bothered me. So I bought a running and supposedly just rebuilt 32 valve 5.0, and with it comes
a custom front end kit that appears to be an old "can't remember the name at the moment" - Gambella? maybe) kit for hideaway headlights, flaired front fenders and a slant nose front. I am hoping to add a "medium wide" set of Clockwork orange rear fenders and side skirts (less radical than the full Clockwork orange which, candidly, I do not care for) and possibly a latter model rear bumper covering, or maybe not. This donor car also has new carpeting and a redyed (black) and virtually pristine interior to go into the 86 1/2.
I am not a "Porsche" person in history. Had hotrods (427 chevy, 440 Mopar, 390 AMX and Boss 351, and such as TR6, Twin turbo Maserati, Alfa Romero GTV 2000. Never was much on the 911, mostly because I always saw them as outrageously prices for what a person got...
Buying a 928 was a think fast lark decision. A person was selling a 1984
automatic with an older full custom body kit, in my wife's favorite color (Corvette yellow - ugh), BBS wheels and clean interior - for $4,000. We both drove it, she wanted it. I was impressed, so bought myself a green '81 5 speed hardtop (not sunroof) with excellent maintenance history by Devek - paid $6,000 which was a bit over priced but in real terms not really as everything was done and redone through the suspension, chassis, motor etc...
Then a parts car, then this 86 1/2 turbo, and finally searching out a custom body kit and good 32 Valve - finding both in a $2,000 buy...
I figure, when done, I will have about $25K in the 86 1/2, counting the donor car and a professional paint job - possibly a bit less actually. It should make a real 500 horsepower (people awfully exaggerate) with real V-8 torque, a 0.31 co-efficient drag and a redline top speed right at 207 mph, with it also likely a high 10 second quarter et car.
I like the 928 because it is a highly stylized, high curb appeal, excellent cornering, thundering muscle car that is perfectly unique. It was only later I began exploring the history of this non-Porsche-like killer Porsche and what such ever existed at all. A curious and significant anomoly in the turmoil of the collision of EPA, DOT and giant corporate manufacturer wars.
And I like interesting or unique cars. Have the shell of a 1958 "Berkley" out back - ahead of its time. A fiberglass and aluminum composite 2 seater micro car powered by a 3 cylinder 2 stroke motor, looking like a tiny 1950s Covette, that weighed all of 600 pounds. Just like looking at it.

My frustation? 928 s, particularly early ones, have many electrical gremlins that disable them. Nearly all do. Merely stating "check fuses, relays and contacts" is of little help as there are "contacts" all over the 928 and in odd places. There is no central info source for solution, though essentially every 928 owner faces exactly the same gremlins.
Beyond all the other benefits, that is a reason I want a stand alone engine management system - that completely bypasses all the Porsche electronics completely in relation to motor operation - nice.
For those grelims - people frustrated that the windows won't go down, a/c won't turn on and the fuel pump won't pump - 928 s are being dismantled at an alarming rate and most 928 s are parked - though the basic 928 motor is good for hundreds of thousands of miles and 928 s do not rust. It is for lack of a horse, the kingdom is lost. For lack of
support to solve simple electrical and electronic problems - minutes to fix IF you know what the fix is - the remaining 928 series Porsche are being slaughtered and their resale valves falling through the floor at an alarming rate (why I am getting them so cheaply...)

I am watching ebay (the great car dumping ground) and numerous German and Porsche used parts suppliers, and it appears about 20 or so 928 s are being dismantled a week, and the 78-79 model is down to virtually worthless in resale, with anything below the 32 valve models dirt cheap and falling fast.
Cars go this way, though. In the early 70s, an early 60s V-12 front engine Ferrari was a couple thousand dollars, (now $100K), early Corvettes were $1,000, GTX 440s were $800, and I recall an Aston Martin DB for $300 in 1968. Within 2 to 3 years, there will be around 2,500 clean, running 928 Porsche left, with 10,000 or so derrelict and semi-derrelict 928s under tarps, in garage corners and in stages of forgotten restoration - and within 5 years they will suddenly be re-discovered as a collectable. About 60% of the 928 remaining fleet will have to be eliminated first - and that is happening now very quickly.

While I think the 911 GT1 is probably the most stunning appearance performance road car ever built - this having nothing to do with it being Porsche - I have just never cared much for the 911 series. Guess that is why I bought a 928, no? A 928 is nothing like a 911 (and visa versa). The basic Carrera and the Boxster are just too dull and conservative an appearance for my tastes. If I spent upper 5 or lower 6 figures on a performance roadster, I want people to think "wow" when they see - or at least I think that when I see it in my driveway.
When the 928 does the "wow" is when you lift the hood. "WOW, now THERE'S a motor!" Actually, the most common reaction of muscle car guys of hot rod American V-8s at a local dragstrip is "holy s---t!" when I show the 928 motor, which they have not seen before. A big Holley on a highriser is dull as dirt compared to an early 928 spider intake or the later 32 valve massive seeming cross rams.

DFWX: Any thoughts on putting something together for SLIPSTREAM? Or do you feel that it is more focused on 911's? Sure would like to have a lil sump'n in there concerning these Sharks...

Yes, exactly.
I hope to find time to put together a web site editorial of this in long and short form, and then offering it to all Porsche published magazines. I do not think Porshe folks have some conspiracy against the 928, rather it is a topic not raised.
So this is what happens... A person buys a 928, 944, or 924 and sends off dues to the PCA etc - and then Panorama comes. They bought it on a lark, because fund limited, or because in a younger age they wanted one but could not afford it. They buy an old Porsche hoping it is the thing their dreams and fantasies are made of.
They pour over the pages, trying to find anything about their model - and there is little to nothing. They go to the web site for PCA - little to nothing. They write to the technical section with a gremlim problem - there is not response.
Somewhere along the way, they feel slighted, can't get it going or running, feel all alone and abandoned and disrespected even by Porsche, and park it in disassembled or at least non-running form until their spouse wins in demands to get rid of the damned thing. And love of Porsche turned to a bitter experience.

The reason people buy old Porsches is the motorhead inside them and the dream of ultimately having a car worthy of the cover of a magazine and that people oogle over. To own a PORSCHE!

Porsche and the PCA should feed and cajole that fantasy, as that is what it is all about. And it is where loyalty comes from and where people become willing to shell out the almost obscene prices for Porsche parts and Porsche dealer servicing.
If the subject raised, I believe credit will be given where credit is due to the 928 - as it truly was a glorious piece of Porsche history of daring, innovative brilliant and creativity.
Porsche was technologically ahead when EPA standards hit - and no one but Porsche could have built such as the 928 no matter how hard they tried due to the EPA standards. The 928 motor is not only powerful, but also very efficient - meaning very clean. Porsche saved their beloved 911 by counter attack against GM - building a killer, luxury V-8 muscle car beyond anything GM ever made or came close to building. The 928 blew any GM car away - but then the 928 blew away every production car by anyone.
I love the scene in the Tom Cruise movie (Easy money?) of the garage door opening, the 928 starting and the thrilling music building to it - that is the sensation of a 928. Many, many web sites of 928 owners feature what? "Click here to listen to a sound clip of my 928."
It is not just that my wife's custom bodies 928 turns every male head between age 10 and 60, but it also does so when she starts it up. This aint the sound of a pick up with glass packs or 4-6 cylinder sports car.

Sound matters. The extremely successful new release of the Mustang V-8 (a reskinned 10 year old design)? The did digital recordings of the 427 side oiler in the movie "Bullet" and tuned the exhaust to match.

The 928 is a fantasy car. But, then, all Porsche are. That is the reason, the only reason, anyone buys a Porsche. Because they believe it will return to them more than just the car itself, but a greater worth and self identity beyond the car into their whole life. A lawyer buys a Boxster to demonstrate conservative success and upward mobility...

A person buys an old 928 because that want a very, very fast car that looks and sounds like a very, very fast car and with maximum curb appeal - even most bang for the buck now too.

Yes, I hope to do exactly that, seek publication of a mini-version of my rambling editorial - as actually it is boasting of Porsche, no?
GM has never built anything like a turbo Carrera, but Porsche built a V-8 muscle beyond anything GM ever made. Yet GM had all the money and all the political power - imagine that. A true David and Goliath battle, and Porsche came out on top - over everyone - in the 928. Porsche went from being a cute little Terrier to the Pit Bull of production super cars. And no one saw it coming.
And, hopefully, other semi-left out Porsche owners will follow suit. The time when Porsche offered a truly affordable, fun Porsche (914). Did 912s and 968s just fall off the end of the world? If there is a Porsche bargain out there, it is the 924. I just saw a 924 TURBO, mostly through a restoration, that could not bring $1,000 on ebay. Being lighter, it is faster than a turbo 944.
Less than $1000 for a turbo 924 with 3 times that in new parts included?

Years (many) ago my brother showed up gleaming in his used 924 - he owned a PORSCHE! It had nothing to do with preformance, rather that word "PORSCHE".
There is something terribly, terribly "off" when a turbo 924 sells for 1/4th the price of a same vintage, mega mass produced VW Beetle.

The benefit to Porsche (and Porsche Clubs) to time to time featuring one of their historic greats or high volume selling models is to broaden the base and the perception of how diverse the potential Porsche customer (and membership) field is.
Lastly, it is the 944, 928, 911, 924 and early 911 owners who most tinker with, modify and develop that wonderful love-hate intimacy with their cars and are the true Porsche loyalists - who, therefore, have the most easily hurt feelings if neglected.
If they can not get their old Porsche to run for some little gremlin problem - and this then reduces the value of their Porsche to next to nothing - they will not buy another Porshe the rest of their lives. In there somewhere, a three Boxster and one Carrera buyer was lost, and another company paying Porsche a trademark for for Porsche logo trinkets goes out of business. The car ultimately is dismantled. PCA lost another member...
Ego is at the core of all costly and exotic car sales and nearly every car project. It takes little to feed that ego that also is then a loyalty.

If I RAN either the PCA or any Porsche publication, I would have a page each month dedicated to each model series such as 924, 914, 944, 928, 356 etc, featuring in each the "car of the month" and at least 3 thumbnail photos of 3 more (only for PCA members cars of course), with a couple paragraphs of something wonderful of that series and a tiny print list of half a dozen typical maintenance, fix up and upgrade tips - with advertising slots on the opposing page for parts suppliers, dealerships, repair shops etc.
I would run mini-series or restorations and modification projects. I would do smaller mini updates on some project for each series - and, of course, include earlier vintage 911s definitely in this as well.
This would still leave the bulk of space to new Porsche lines, racing and events news etc. and advertisers in likely much thicker magazines to many more advertisers.

I can not image any Porsche material doing anything but declaring every model Porsche was record breaking, absolutely fabulous, cutting edge, truly unique, completely loveable, wonderful, collectable and a truly car worth having and keeping for which the owner of such model is a vastly important, obviously smart person by such ownership - or am I just wacko?

"It is easiest to be most hurt by who we most love" sort of thing.

Every lower income buyer of outdated or cheap Porsches strives to be wealthy to buy a GT1 or Carrera twin turbo. They envision their car running right along side the GT1 and people marveling at their car in parking lots. Unless they are slighted by Porsche people. Or they dump their own Porsche because they can not solve a $5 electrical fix or afford paying a Porsche dealer $2,500 to do it for them. Left in the cold, feeling belittled even by Porsche people, do they really become indifferent and bitter towards the car, or towards Porsche as in "Porsche is nothing but a pain to own"?

Few other auto publications do this. The late 70s and early 80s pony cars (Firebird, Camero, Mustang...) were absolute junk. No power. Ugly. Fell apart. Worthless junk. Yet not if you read a magazine for Chevy or Ford. They feature these cars. They feature entire restorations to full customization. They will take a boneyard 1984 standard Camero and feature turning it into a show car - or so they declare the end result to be. To a Chevy mag, every Camero was fantastic and still is.
To most Porsche materials, the 928 is an outdated model that was "a bit on the heavy side." End of story. What happened to "fastest production car in the United States?" Where is a photo of the incredible spider intake that has been polished?

As for "there are far more 911 and Boxster owners out there" comments, is that REALLY true? Or are there REALLY more 914, 924, 944, 928 and 968 owners out there - with no particular reason to involve as there is little involvement with them. How many of those models are still out there in the USA? Hundreds of thousands. Look at production numbers. Most have not yet been scrapped - but they are now being scrapped at an increasing rate. Value, of course, is entirely in the mind. Old Porsche are junk or endeared collectables - such as WE define them to be.
The worthless 924? The 924 was a study in agility. Lightweight. 50/50 balance. Low. Sleek. Economical fuel consumption. 125 miles per hour - stock. Can't get $1,000 for a turbo version.

For your comment, yes, that is my goal and this writing on and on is just feeling it out, getting comments so I "get the facts straight" and to make it more focused, less angry at Porsche/PCA, and - certainly - shorter and more to the point. I have wanted to do this for some time. Why?
The 928 really (not just pretend) was defining and decisive in Porsche history and in how people define what a Porsche is today, was a design break through (at least collectively) for the era and remains a truly thundering, potent, modern capable high speed GT few product cars can match to this day.

DFWX - I can get you published. maybe not Pano to start but I can get you into SLIPSTREAM - has about 1500 readers. Its a start...

As far as a monthly column? At present we have a few monthly columns, one is from the pres the other is bard meeting minutes, then their is my column and we have a race column update. I would like to have a monthly tech column and I think a non-911 column would be interesting for sure. You can call it "The Shark Tank" or Swimming With Sharks"! Lets talk about this.

Also, the 3rd Coast 928 Shark Gathering will be held at Marble Falls TX on Sept 23-35. If you go, feel free to write about it and I will publish it.

Check out details at www.mavpca.org . Go to the newsletter tab and see the Aug issue. It should be available today (or in the next few days). Feel free to scan the other issues as well. Let me know what you think.

The new 928:
http://www2.us.porsche.com/english/usa/news/pressreleases/pag/2005-07-27-2.htm

I just read most of this and I have to jump in. Regarding the PCA, it is a great organization. Depending on the region there is so much to be offered. The NNJR region is very active with great events and social gatherings. Although you can learn more technical info from these sites there is a lot of knowledgeable people involved locally.

I find my GTS gets great respect and admiration from the local 911 owners and PCA members. I see almost as many articles about the 928 as you read about the 356, 914, 924, 944, 968. Being out of production, these are special interest cars and people want to read about current production.

Someone stated that the 928 was a great supercar. I would call it the greatest GT ever made but not a supercar. My 94 turbo 3.6 had a higher top speed than the 94 GTS and in stock form easily out accelerates it. In fact my Cayenne Turbo can beat the GTS from 60-130 mph which is a truer test of power. Even with a top speed of 178 MPH the 94 turbo was still not the fastest car in the world and with the introduction of cars like the Mclaren F1, F40 etc it was almost impossible for any car manufacturer to strive for this designation for quite some time. The GTS is a grand car. It is one of the most comfortable cars I have owned and I have owned many. It handles well but I can guarantee you if they twin turboed it, it would not be able to handle the extra HP the way my 94 turbo can without major suspension modifications that would destroy the GT ride quality that makes the car so pleasurable to drive. I am running 430BHP and 450 ft pounds of torque in the turbo with simple mods and it is a rocket compared to the GTS. It will out accelerate cars with more HP like the Viper amongst others to the 100 and 125 mark. It is not a drag car and does not fair well 0-60 but more than makes up for it to the higher speeds. It is far more maneuverable and because it is almost 600 pounds less than the GTS it really is more fun to drive fast especially through the twisty back roads.

Someone also stated that with simple mods the GTS can do an 11.9 sec ¼ mile and 190 top end. I wish it was true but that is not the case. It is not cheap or easy to extract but a few more Hp out of these cars without supercharging. Even if you could bring the power up high enough to achieve such tremendous numbers the 5 speed is too slow and awkward to shift fast enough to obtain these numbers even with a short shifter. The GTS will do a comfortable 13 second quarter with some minor mods. To drop it another 1.1 seconds would take considerable work and expense. From a driving experience to bump the power up high enough to achieve such goals will far overpower the cars suspension. The expense involved would be tremendous and it will probably destroy the feel that the car has that makes it the pleasurable car to drive. Even with the PS2’s I recently added and the Bilstein sport suspension and the 50/50 weight distribution the cars weight just works against it plain and simple.

Don’t get me wrong I love the 928 line especially the GTS. I wouldn’t trade it for any other Porsche other than my 94 turbo which I feel is a better sports car not necessarily a better car. However, the 928 line was dying long before the GTS. With poor sales, lack of customer interest and the great expense to build these beauties are what killed off the 928. I recall seeing many a 95 GTS for sale at the local dealerships well into 1997. It is a shame that Porsche had to kill off the 928 but it’s time came and went. Those that are smart enough to pick up a good example can have quite a great car even by today’s standards for a bargain price.

The newer 911’s have been infused with many features that Porsche saved for the 928 line and in many ways the newer 911’s have become more GT’s than true sports cars. The 928 is a car that will always be unique to itself and is a car I plan on keeping and enjoying for many years to come. I think you find if you pull up to a local PCA event you will find many people interested in learning more about these beautiful classics.

DFWX,
I could really throw this into OT...I entirely disagree with the accusations against GM.

That aside: The 928 is awesome, and I'm sure it did help save Porsche in terms of prestige. I'll argue that the 928 brought new prestige and connotations of the marque. This probably sold the 4-cylinder FE cars at a profit for a long time, keeping Porsche in the game.

And as for PCA...I went to an autocross today. I don't have to be a PCA member to run in the PCA-sponsored AX, as some WRX guys were running too. But I want to buy a helmet and join when I turn 18 next month. I saw good friends and great people interested in a common thing: exercising sports cars. From an outsider's POV, I think this is a good side of PCA, as are tech sessions and rallies (from what I've heard).

I have been a member of the PCA for a few years now.

I like the national club but my local region is full of *******s. That is why I moved my membership to the Maverick region and out of the War Bonnet region. My region just wants to have a little boys club that only a few of the members control and are not very liking of new people in their group.


Oh and Pano is a great rag.

Value Needed on Project 928: Book
 

A friend has offered me some of his old books & magazines, among them is the Project 928: A Development History of the Porsche 928 book. I want to pay him for it, and want to be fair. Any idea of a fair price??? BTW, this isn't for sale.

TIA,

racer... If the book is in good condition with a dust jacket, figure
on $200 and up. Less is a steal.


G'luck

Agree and disagree...
A GTS with out a power adder will not do an 11.9 sec 1/4 mile. I am pushing over 450RWHP with drag radials and a lot less weight and can only hit mid-low 11's. I've 150+ more HP at the wheels.

On the 5 speed though.. Maybe the GTS is different, but my Euro 5 speed is fast. And in the quarter there are only 2 shifts for most 928s. Depending on your trap speed you might just be tagging 4th gear.


I like that the 928 gets no respect outside of our little club. I always root for the under dag. It keeps parts cheap and allows me to own a couple cars that should be oput of my leage.

On Topic. The PCA events I have been to have been full of nice folks who were interested in the Shark. I saw more of a division between those who shine and those who race.

I dont really have anything to comment about on regional PCA. However our local PCA has some bad apples in it.

I dont find that they have any disrespect for ANY of the models, as long as you do everything in your power to look after them, or work on them.
I get a fair amount of respect from the local guys (even 911 owners) due to the fact I do all my own work and modify/create things as well. A few of them have commented that they would like me to get a 911, I told them maybe when the prices of them become realistic.

I personally dont get any of the mags as I dont really spend much time and they would simply sit there untouched.
I however fully understand as to why to sharks dont get mentioned all that often. For every 1 928 there are hundreds of 911s/boxsters around. It is a very simple numbers answer. You write for the majority, not minority. Most owners around here are more concerned about there car and not another model.

I don't think the question is how is X club, forum, etc.

Its what are you looking for, and do they offer that specific thing.

I'm thinking about some track events, so I expect to join several groups that organize them. I don't expect to spend a lot of social time with misc Porsche owners though.

Being a front engined Porsche owner (928 S4 and a 944), I agree that PCA is mostly geared to 911 and Boxter owners but I'm still involved with the club and part of the executive mainly for the social aspect and club events ( tours, autocross and tech nights). There are a handful of 928 owners that are active members in our region (Canada West) we always remind the "others" that Porsche is more than 911's. The true "wrench heads" in the club have a genuine interest and respect for the engineering marvel that the 928 is. Our local publication usually has tech articles on the 928 because we 928 owners write and send in articles to have published. If you don't like the direction your regional PCA is taking, please be active to change it to your liking.

The PCA is a Great Club! I attend several track events a year and have also gone to a couple of national events as well as local region sponsored events.

If you don't like how your Region represents the 928, get off your arse and take the flag! Most Regions have a set budget to sponsor at least one yearly event per model 928,924,911,356 etc.) Even if it's a couple of hundred bucks to cover food, you can make it a nice event. We recently did a 928 Dyno Day and Concour that was great with a really nice turn out. Those type events get people to join PCA and when the PCA sees intrest from a certain model (928) they'll give that group more attention.

My 928 is a HUGE hit at the track. People absolutely love the car and it gets as much if not more attention than most cars out there. respect too,, It's funny seeing people react after a run group :)

Cool, thats, sorry for the high jack, I thought I was starting a new thread (I hit new thread:eek: button)

Sorry to drag up an old thread but.... I think you need to give the WBR region another try with a more open mind.... I joined in April as probably the youngest member in quite some time (18). Everyone has been very welcoming to me. They let me help with events and stuff... PM me...