Help me get this 928S up and running!

[blepkowski]

Thanks Russ!

I do have a leak down tester but what is the easiest way to figure out when the valves are fully closed for each particular cylinder?

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by blepkowski

Thanks Russ!

I do have a leak down tester but what is the easiest way to figure out when the valves are fully closed for each particular cylinder?

Pull all the plugs, put the gauge on the cylinder to test and rotate the engine with a long handle breaker bar or ratchet clockwise until the gauge shows pressure from the rising piston and closed valves. Peak pressure I would think would be close to top dead center for that cylinder. Then do the test.

[firemed51]

IMHO I would change the timing belt and water pump, while checking associated gears, and rebuilding the tensioner, and check the flex plate pre-load as it is an automatic.

There are way to many cars parted out to take another one out... Great find!

[blepkowski]

I totally agree about not taking another one out! My goal is to get this car back on the road as long as it can be done reasonably.


Today I removed the dash pod and really started getting into the "flame zone" its really not that bad and there are more wires intact than I figured. I definitely need a heater box though!!


I will check the motor's condition hopefully in the next day or so. Thanks for that tip with the leak down tester.

If the interior/dash/wiring turns out ok and the motor appears healthy I will totally go through the car and get everything up to spec.

[Danglerb]

Take some pictures. Wires may also "look" OK, but the insulation could be hard and brittle virtually useless.

OTOH fire does kind of go up, so down and behind might not be so bad. Can you tell what started the fire yet?

[blepkowski]

Oh I BY NO MEANS intend to reuse any dash wiring!! I was just happy to see some in tact for identification and ease of replacement and swapping of the harness.

I really cant tell how it started but it appears the hottest area seemed to be the area behind the cluster on the right lower side and on the top left of the heater box.

Some of the intact wiring / connectors have older looking hand written labels on them indicating that maybe the dash was apart at sometime in the cars life. Maybe some wires were poorly routed in that area resulting in chaffing which caused one hell of a short!!!?? There is also a larger gauge red wire on the far left lower corner of the fuse panel that looks a little cooked. I will take some pictures tomorrow..

[blepkowski]

OK finally I've gotten some free time to work on the car. It really isn't looking too bad but I have found some suspect looking wires, mainly the positive wires on the fuse panel and also leading up to the positive terminal on the passenger side fender well under the hood.

The main wires from the battery up to the starter look OK but it's these wires around the panel and on the jump start terminal that have me nervous. Any ideas on what happened here? I'm realizing more and more how important it is to find whatever caused this!

[BLK87S4]

Worked on a friends 911 that had a short that had a melted bundle of wires under the dash. I replaced the wires but initially didn't find the short. When I hooked up the battery and opened the door, the wire bundle "poofed" like and old flash bulb. The short was so sever, the wires were glowing red and the insulation was just "gone." So I replaced the wires again and had my wife open the door in a feeble attempt to open the door to see if I could detect the short. Poof! Nope. So I replaced the entire door switch circuit, relays, turn signals, park lights (all share a common grounding point) then it worked. Never found the actual problem. He brought it to me because the turn signals stopped working. To make a long story short, I never have liked Porsche's switches (lights, doors, seats, etc.). Also when I've had electrical gremlins with my car, it's ALWAYS been a ground wire. Just thoughts....

[Danglerb]

The jump post goes to the starter and from that directly to the battery.

My wild guess is that wires shorted out in the fire under the dash, and fried other stuff who knows where, but definitely some are associated with the jump post power.

[blepkowski]

Ok well finally I got to the engine today and did a compression test by jumping the starter directly.

It cranked very slowly but I was able to get some dry test numbers and they have me a bit nervous!

cyl
1-165

2-160

3-70

4-160

5-145

6-150

7-110

8-165

The car probably has not run in over 6 months so I don't know if these numbers are going to be very helpful to determining the engines health.

The plugs looked ok for all the cylinders.

I also found about a teaspoon of oil in each of the intake boxes ( 4c 32V ). Is that normal or do I have an issue with blow by?

Based on autocheck I would estimate the cars mileage at around 120-150 k

[Danglerb]

Put a squirt of oil down each plug hole, test with all the plugs out, and charge the battery first.

Make sure NOTHING else is still connected to the starter power.

I'm not sure how long the motor needs to crank or run to get all the lifters pumped up.

[blepkowski]

The way I was cranking it was with a jumper cable hooked directly to the starter with all the cars wiring disconnected from the starter .

I had the other end hooked to my car that was idling with a newer 600amp battery.

All the plugs were out as well.

Do the lifters have anything to do with my compression readings?

[Shark_GTS]

well there could be the reason for the inferno.

strange we pulled a motor, for the same readings, same engine, same cylinder. it was a chipped exhaust valve. lumpy idle otherwise ran fine.

you have to pull the motor to fix a head issue. it's not an easy job and with the age and other issues, etc. risky too, because of so many things that can go wrong and do go wrong.

[Danglerb]

Cranking slowly is still a problem, maybe the connection you made wasn't good? Wire gauge too small, cable too long, or connectors failed to make a high current connection.

A teaspoon of oil might loosen up a sticky ring etc. (in each cylinder)

Lifters are between the cam and valve, until the lifter "pumps" up the valve may not fully open.

When cranking be sure to have the throttle open.

This is definitely a proceed slowly project.

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by blepkowski

Thanks Russ!

I do have a leak down tester but what is the easiest way to figure out when the valves are fully closed for each particular cylinder?

remove all spark plugs, and bump engine over with you finger covering the spark plug hole. when the cylinder pressure blows your finger off, you're at top dead center with all valves closed.

(be sure to do compression tests with the battery fully charged, all spark plugs removed, and spin the engine for at least 8 revolutions. record your numbers.)

Originally Posted by blepkowski

Ok well finally I got to the engine today and did a compression test by jumping the starter directly.

It cranked very slowly but I was able to get some dry test numbers and they have me a bit nervous!

cyl
1-165

2-160

3-70

4-160

5-145

6-150

7-110

8-165

The car probably has not run in over 6 months so I don't know if these numbers are going to be very helpful to determining the engines health.

The plugs looked ok for all the cylinders.

I also found about a teaspoon of oil in each of the intake boxes ( 4c 32V ). Is that normal or do I have an issue with blow by?

Based on autocheck I would estimate the cars mileage at around 120-150 k

I would not worry too much about cylinder #5 or 7. these lower numbers maybe from lifters not pumping up totally. maybe. However, cylinder #3 is really bad. several things can cause this, most likely a broken piston (see my holiday project thread) or broken rings.

oil in the intake is not surprising with these engines (more prevalent on the 16V).

putting a teaspoon of oil in the spark plug holes and then running another compression test will tell you:

1. if the numbers stay the same, you have bad valves/broken ring/broken piston.

2. if the numbers come up, you have worn rings or stuck rings that have decided to become unstuck.

Originally Posted by blepkowski

The way I was cranking it was with a jumper cable hooked directly to the starter with all the cars wiring disconnected from the starter .

I had the other end hooked to my car that was idling with a newer 600amp battery.

All the plugs were out as well.

Do the lifters have anything to do with my compression readings?

yes, they may if the car has been sitting for a very long time. if they have no oil to pump them up, then actual valve lift (opening) will be compromised.


Try adding a teaspoon or so of Rislone engine treatment to each cylinder, let it sit for a while, and then do a compression test to see if the numbers come up (or maybe the rings get unstuck...?).

Report your findings.


Good luck, I hope yours doesn't look like mine......







--Russ

[Shark_GTS]

the amount valve lift shouldn't matter. just so long it cracks open to let in some air (slow cranking) trying to build compression valves need to be fully closed.

a porsche engine is a porsche engine. they make good compression if you turn'em by hand after sitting 3 years, stone cold. since the numbers are good on all the other cylinders me thinks it's hooped.

[blepkowski]

Well..............

I ran another compression test today wet . The results were about the same and the bad stayed cylinder never came up.

This time I used a 1000 amp battery from our boat and it still cranked a little slow.

I did notice however a strange tick noise about once every other crank revolution which doesn't make me feel any better about the engines health.

Unfortunately the uncertainty about the engine is disappointing and I think I'm going to have to turn this car into another parts car.

I just hope I will be able to recoup what I have into it which is about 1k

[artikulieren]

That's sad to hear that this one turned out a bit sour... ya win some, ya lose some

[Danglerb]

Funny how often a car fire has a bad motor. ;(

Was the vin 1000+? If its a 86.5 you will have no trouble parting it for a profit, if not, well you will be ok as long as the labor is considered free education.

Post something in the classified, or send me a PM when you are ready to PARTy.

[Shark_GTS]

i've seen three "insurance" fires = three wrecked engines - t-belt, cracked block, etc. - all porsche. friend of mine, factory trained P-mechanic bought light fire damage (under car, fuel/line pump leak) a sweet 944S2, got it all fixed, fired it up.....water pours out of the block.