Newbie ?'s

[voodoo pistons]

hi guys-

i am considering the purchase of my first 928. following a pre-purchase inspection from my local and trusted porsche wrench, i may buy the car as early as tomorrow afternoon. i am a longtime car enthusiast and motorcycle enthusiast and have always done most of the work on all of my cars and will probably be doing most of the work on the 928 if i end up closing the deal.

the 928 i'm looking at is a 1978 european delivery car. the body and mechanicals seem pretty sound, but the interior is, ummmmm, vintage. i'm interested in sourcing a set of black leather seats in very good to excellent condition from a donor car. i am also very interested in the possibility of using some later model electrically adjustable seats. will the electrics fit into the original bolt holes in the pan? is the interface to these seats to the 1978 harness particularly troublesome? what might i expect to pay for a set of seats such as those that i'm describing?

thanks,

-robert

[MPDano]

Welcome to the world of 928'ers! Sounds like your well on your way to a good start with your trusty porsche wrench. Pics are always worth a thousand words. BTW, I am also doing the same as you. I have an 81 Euro and putting Leather 928 Electric Sport Seats, but I have the seats but not in the schedule to put them in just yet. Still need to get my dash done and replace the carpet. Get the pics coming!

Heres my project of over a year now from start to present.

http://www.porsche928forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4&sid=21ae0328f46fa01a450509d181a995ba

[Danglerb]

Does your trusted Porsche wrench work on a lot of early 928's? If not he might as well be your trusted Buick wrench.

My 83 is a European delivery car, but other than a service stamp from Stuttgart for the first service at the factory its a 100% US model, nothing Euro about it.

A friendly suggestion, put your initial efforts into making your car safe and properly running, then enjoy it a bit as Porsche intended before changing anything.

Early seat rails are slightly different, bolts are one size smaller, and I think the mounting area is shorter, but nothing seriously preventing your adding 45 lbs of motors etc. to the lowest powered model of 928.

[artikulieren]

love this part of your reply Danglerb, how true: "...but nothing seriously preventing your adding 45 lbs of motors etc. to the lowest powered model of 928." ... I personally love the early interiors, particularly the op art patterned ones... I would gladly swap out the excellent black leather interior of my '87 S4 for an excellent op-art interior (pantra or pasha or something is the the name of the material if I recall. if you ask me it is the best attribute of a 78/79 928)

[voodoo pistons]

thanks for the candid replies, guys.

all have been taken under consideration. AFA adding the additional 40#'s w/ the electric seats, i have a plan- i'm gonna loose 40#'s. i too like the pasha interior and looked into that already. big $$$ plus the wear factor makes me wanna go w/ leather, plus i already have a line on a nice pair of seats, front and rear, in leather, out of an '87. based upon danglerb's input, it seems as though the fronts will fit, but i'm unsure about the rears. any of you 928 specialists know if they will or not?

the mechanic that's inspecting the car is fortunately familiar w/ the early 928's so that's a plus. i'm also planning to follow danglerb's suggestion about putting the car into top mechanical shape first, but b/c it seems to be pretty solid, and the the seats are available now, i wanna jump on 'em if they'll fit.

next question: how difficult is it to mire in the electric seats? it seems to me as if it shouldn't be too difficult, but i don't know. do the seats just require a basic electrical input, or were there several layers of interface between the seat harnesses and the rest of the car?

thanks again for the friendly advice.

-robert

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by voodoo pistons

i have a plan- i'm gonna loose 40#'s

Me too Brother!!

[Danglerb]

Thats 45 lbs, not 40.

Power seats are also about 2" higher at the lowest setting than manual seats.

The rears I am not so sure about. I've just recently taken apart a couple dozen rear seats and there is some variation in construction, but I don't know about fit. The good news is that rear seats in very nice shape are not hard to find, they usually have little or no wear, or damage from sun light.

All the seat controls are on the seat, so power and ground for a typical install, plus maybe switched power.

BTW with a 928 you need to be ready to take advantage of opportunities. If you find seats you like at a good price buy them. Get them at a good enough price you can sell them later if you change your mind. Good seats are generally a quick selling item within our community.

[rhjames]

rear seats are interchangeable between years, as are the front seats.

front seats are wired differently between the OB's and the later S4, GT, GTS, but Jim Bailey tells me it's just a matter of using a hot and ground on the later seats. They are bolt in otherwise.







--Russ

[MPDano]

Yes, on my Euro, there is no harness to the seats as they are originally manual. I will just wire them straight (non switched), hot and ground like Russ said.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by voodoo pistons

hi guys-

i am considering the purchase of my first 928. following a pre-purchase inspection from my local and trusted porsche wrench, i may buy the car as early as tomorrow afternoon. i am a longtime car enthusiast and motorcycle enthusiast and have always done most of the work on all of my cars and will probably be doing most of the work on the 928 if i end up closing the deal.

the 928 i'm looking at is a 1978 european delivery car. the body and mechanicals seem pretty sound, but the interior is, ummmmm, vintage. i'm interested in sourcing a set of black leather seats in very good to excellent condition from a donor car. i am also very interested in the possibility of using some later model electrically adjustable seats. will the electrics fit into the original bolt holes in the pan? is the interface to these seats to the 1978 harness particularly troublesome? what might i expect to pay for a set of seats such as those that i'm describing?

thanks,

-robert

You can get really nice aftermarket "racing" type seats that look very nice too for pretty cheap on EBAY. Depending on your taste, they go from about $250.00-$1000.00 a pair.

The good ones have the benefit of also being much lighter (as much as 60+ lbs for the pair lighter if you're getting top end seats and replacing power units), so you get a bit o' real world performance from them too. (Chopping off excess weight is without a doubt the cheapest way to get a significant performance gain from any 928, followed by a good exhaust.)

I got cloth seats, but if i had it to do over, i'd have gotten vinyl. It wears much nicer over time. Some pix of the ones in my car:

[rhjames]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

You can get really nice aftermarket "racing" type seats that look very nice too for pretty cheap on EBAY. Depending on your taste, they go from about $250.00-$1000.00 a pair.

The good ones have the benefit of also being much lighter (as much as 60+ lbs for the pair lighter if you're getting top end seats and replacing power units), so you get a bit o' real world performance from them too. (Chopping off excess weight is without a doubt the cheapest way to get a significant performance gain from any 928, followed by a good exhaust.)

another very good alternative where you are not worried about originality (concours and such).





--Russ

[voodoo pistons]

thanks for all the great feedback guys. i briefly considered using some corbeau's for the front seats as i'm a dealer and can get them at cost, but i really like the design of the 928 interior and i don't wanna butcher it up too much.

i got the report from the mechanic today and it was what i was expecting. fluids need to be changed and a major maintenance needs to be performed. i went through my list and priced up all the parts and figure that i'm looking at around $1,000 for all the parts, plus two weekends to do what i need to do.

as a matter of course, i always like to change belts, and fluids on my 'new' cars, so i'm not too worried about that part of the project. the timing belt was just changed so my plan is to replace the radiator hoses and fluid, change the engine oil and filter, drain and refill the gearbox and diff, replace the A/C, power steering and alternator hoses and flush the brake system.

as long as i'm gonna have the car on the lift, i'm also giving serious thought to pulling off all 4 calipers and brake hoses and rebuild the calipers (as well as the master cylinder) and replace the brake hoses and pads. i see that our hosts, pelican parts, have rebuild kits for all of the hydraulics. have you guys had good luck w/ the rebuild kits, w/ the assumption of course being that the bores aren't scratched and pitted and the pistons are goodther work will include replacing all of the ignition wires, plugs, cap and rotor and air filter. i'll probably also pull out the injectors and clean them, since a buddy of mine does this in his shop and will do it for me for free.

as i mentioned before, i've already priced up all the parts to do this and i'm coming in at under $1K. i also like to do this stuff to get to know a car, so spending a weekend or so to get it all done is a great way to get to know the car and really evaluate it's condition.

last coupla questions for now: some of the vacuum line are disconnected from the D-Jet system. is there an illustration available that shows their routing anywhere out there that y'all would be willing to share w/ me? next, the motor mounts seem pretty good right now, but they may need to be replaced in a year or so. is that a big job or is it relatively straightforward? finally, why do the upper control arms have to be replaced to repair the upper ball joints? mine are okay (for now!) but when the time comes, i see that each side is about $600? wuzzupwitdat?!?!? is it really true that they have to be replaced entirely, or is that just the factory tryin' to sell us more parts?

thanks for the bandwidth, guys.

-robert (who is inching closer to closing the deal on the silver shark)

o

[rhjames]

as with any 928 purchase, you will need to verify when the last timing belt changeout was done.

if no records are available--figure about $700 for parts (belt kit, h2o pump, rebuild the associated pulleys/tensioner/etc)

as far as brakes/hydraulics, the costs vary. if the system doesn't leak, don't rebuild it unless it's performance is in question. a fluid flush is a good indicator of the system's health. I personally do not advocate rebuilding hydraulic cylinders (brake master, clutch master, clutch slave, wheel end), as it's just as easy and less time consuming to just changeout with new parts.

the ball joints are aluminum (early cars) and do wear out eventually, and Carl (928 Motorsports) does make a kit with instructions for their renewal, or you can shop around for some used a-arms for less money (I have several sets).

vacuum line routing diagrams are easily available for any of the 928's.

K-Jet CIS injectors can be sonically cleaned, but you can use a Mercedes 047 brass injector available several places for about $19 per unit new.

if the car has not been driven for over 6 months or so, so you can figure an entire fuel system cleanout and rebuild due to CIS getting gummed up and not operating properly. this can be very expensive.






--Russ

[Danglerb]

I'm stunned, a 78 and the PPI is only showing change the fluids and do a service (WTF does that mean, a major service?). I've seen some pretty sweet 928's, but nothing so far that I couldn't write page of needed work on. A very rare and lucky find.

I think you are on the right track with fluids and belts, but I would also pull the fuel tank and radiator and have both flushed. I would also carefully inspect the timing belt service and recheck the tension. All fuel, vacuum, and breather hoses should also be replaced.

Picts when you get them please.