4,7l Left or right?

[palaur]

Is the notch best offset to the right or left on the mark when it not line up quite? ( passenger side cam gear, picks)
I already got a good and helpfully answer that it is close, but what is the best setup....







This is one notch diff at the timing belt, all the other mark is dead on,, so it seams it just is not possible to hit it in the middle, i reckon it have advantage to the left and ret timing to the right seen from the picture?

[aluminum]

the Cam in the Advanced Setting would be best BUT >
That's seems to far off to work right ? < somethings is not right > First Guess would be the belt .
Are you sure that Pass side Cam is not 1 tooth off ?
Is that a new Belt ?
Have you set the tension
How far down did you take the motor ? Cam Gears removed and replaced by chance ?
Can you post a Pic of the Crank Pulley with the mark up .

[MPDano]

Yeah, something is not right here. Takes pics of "ALL" your Timing Mark Areas. Let's verify together.

[palaur]

Originally Posted by aluminum

the Cam in the Advanced Setting would be best BUT >
That's seems to far off to work right ? < somethings is not right > First Guess would be the belt .
Are you sure that Pass side Cam is not 1 tooth off ?
Is that a new Belt ?
Have you set the tension
How far down did you take the motor ? Cam Gears removed and replaced by chance ?
Can you post a Pic of the Crank Pulley with the mark up .

Hi, i have tried 2 new belts, and just got the same result. The other marks is on the spot
The belt tension is sett using tens tool.
The cam gears have been removed and reas, but if the former owner have done that, i do not know if he had them swap left or right?
When i started the job i did notice that the balancer where the wrong way..
here are picks....

[palaur]

white dot at the pass side, it have 2... i use det cam notch in the back.

[palaur]

[palaur]

I removed the cam spr left and right and compared it, they look alike, but tried switching anyway, no res,, the only thing i could see where that it had a little free-play in the groove with the locking v..

I also tried all the parts at my 4,5 engine, it didnt line up either at passenger cam notch, Now i have tried 3 diff timing belt, 2 waterpump and 2 harmonic balancer..
Before i did the swapping of parts i Know the 4,5 didnt line upp either.. I got one new coniteck belt and a new waterpump from Pelican, and a new second belt from Germany.. ( maybe the waterpump is the perk ) wonder if the waterpump where bigger, wouldnt it make the belt shorter at the passenger cam?

[MPDano]

Your cam marks are on the Engine Side, correct? Also, that Distributor Rotor looks weird.

Here you go brotha! The Arrows in "Green" are good to go. DO NOT use the marks pointed in Red Arrows as this is what made mine 180 degrees off.







Use 0|T

[palaur]

Thank you, i used the little notch that is toward the engine side at the cam gear. picks 1 and 2..

Turning the engine at O-T setting the belt at driver side and it hit the mark right on, then going under the water pump, so to the cam gear passenger side and get a half tooth wrong 3.5mm either way...

I think it is the angel of my camera that make the distributor looking off, it hit the mark at the housing..

Removed the spark plug on cylinder 1, checked with a wand that it is not turned 360 degrees wrong at the crank .. piston is at its peak when the O-T marking is at the center.. When i tunrn the harmonic balancer and did a reading of the scale, the passenger cam is off by 5 degrees..from O-T

[aluminum]

Hi Palaur Your on the right track !
how frustrating hummm
Yes use the Cam Gear Notch's rear side of gear . ( Paint Dot's are someones Add On to help find the Notch )
the 83 to 86 Cam Gear Number is 928 105 545 10 left and right
You have the early type Tensioner > they have many Tensioner's and they have different Tension Arm's as the Tension Pin well not line up correctly from one " Tensioner " to the Arm correctly .
So Look at that and see if the pin is going straight in not at a a angle .
It is possible perhaps if you have the wrong " Tension Arm " somehow that the belt may be positioned wrong
just a guess however .
if the "Feather Key " is badly worn the cam would be off also ( Key on the Cam to line up the Gear ) but I doubt this is the prob ?
( your cam is way off to far to be just a loose Key or key way )
I am seeing " 2 different numbers " for the cam gear's however they seem to be the same gear left and right > 928 105 545 10 and also 928 105 530 01 ? both for the 83 to 86 years ?
so I don't know what one is right ?
Now I am not sure if you can put the Cam's on wrong head or not but ? the Cam's left and right are different numbers > Could you have the Cam's on the wrong side I wonder ?
If a 16 V Motor the 1/4 Cam ( Pass side Cam ) should be number 928 205 103 00
The 5/8 Cam ( Drivers side ) should be 928 204 103 00
Other Considerations :
the Tension Arm Bolt must be tight ( they strip easy so not to tight !!! )
When setting the Belt Tension with the Kempf Tool when lifting the tool up to check just touch the rear plastic shield as it well bend with pressure and change the reading .
( once you find the problem and set the tension you can run the motor a bit and re check the tension ) You can leave off the covers for this test .
I am thinking you have the wrong Gear on or something about the Cam perhaps or the tension Arm ? if you tried different water pumps I doubt you have run in to some wrong pulley on the pump ?
Not sure if they have different crank Gears 928 105 125 12 should be 83 to 86

[palaur]

Hm I'm staring to freak out now, he he..

I inspected the cams, and they where correct.. the cam sprockets are the same L and R side.

It have a new tensioner, and arm. it line up..

Im going to sett the cam timing, gear notch to the right of the engine mark so it get adv timing.

[aluminum]

was a head swap done on that Motor by any chance ?

[palaur]

looks like that the exhaust header on the right head has been worked on, it also have a new type of simring on the camshaft, but the bolts seems not to have been removed as far as i can tell.
Previous owner of the engine claimed that it where a running engine when it where taken out of the car..
Bought from a shop..

(Hauk Motor)

Hauk Motors

[aluminum]

well You could just degree in the Cam's I have done it a few times on a 911 but not a 928
You need a Dial Indicator
The Specks
and then Just mount the Indicator to the valves one by one to find the valve timing
Now since Its not adjustable you well need to slot the cam Gear or buy one that can be adjusted.
This way you can turn the Cam to the Specks and lock it down.
Note: as the Motor warms up that Cam is going to advance some I believe.
**************
OR you could just use a Dial Indicator and find out how far off you are on one setting or the other .
If It's to far off Smog is a Prob.
I was thinking perhaps some " off year head " is on that side perhaps or the Cam mounts or something perhaps ? wish I had the answer
A motor can be running BUT Running right is what you want .

[SeanR]

Hey Paal,

Got your e-mail and am getting caught up on this thread. My suggestion is to set the cam so it is the 1/2 tooth off towards the passenger side. The reason for this is thermal expansion, as the engine expands the cams will be closer in time. Keep it like you have it in the FIRST picture.

Hope that helps

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by SeanR

Hey Paal,

Got your e-mail and am getting caught up on this thread. My suggestion is to set the cam so it is the 1/2 tooth off towards the passenger side. The reason for this is thermal expansion, as the engine expands the cams will be closer in time. Keep it like you have it in the FIRST picture.

Hope that helps

This is good advice Sean. I was wondering how he was going to handle this. Although, I still think something is not right here. His marks should be spot on, both my engines (4.5 and 4.7) didn't have this issue. Sounds like a Frankensteined engine with incorrect timing pieces.

[palaur]

Hi, first of all i want to thank you all, .

In my mind the ratio between the 2 cam are of 3 things.
1. timing belt.
2. cam gears.
3. water pump pulley.

It just hit me what if the water pump at the engine have the wrong pulley, it would make the timing belt to long. Just an idea

water pump pulley:: 69mm in diameter,, if som one got a different measurement please let me know::

Best regard to all

[palaur]

Originally Posted by SeanR

Hey Paal,

Got your e-mail and am getting caught up on this thread. My suggestion is to set the cam so it is the 1/2 tooth off towards the passenger side. The reason for this is thermal expansion, as the engine expands the cams willl be closer in time. Keep it like you have it in the FIRST picture.

Hope that helps

Great that helps a lot, .
Thank you..

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by palaur

Hi, first of all i want to thank you all, .

In my mind the ratio between the 2 cam are of 3 things.
1. timing belt.
2. cam gears.
3. water pump pulley.

It just hit me what if the water pump at the engine have the wrong pulley, it would make the timing belt to long. Just an idea

water pump pulley:: 69mm in diameter,, if som one got a different measurement please let me know::

Best regard to all

A Pulley would have nothing to do as far as Timing Marks. The only thing that matters are any gears with teeth in the TB Belt Path.

[Mrmerlin]

I am with Sean on this one leave the timing mark as you have it set in the first picture you posted the engine will run fine.
The only other thing i would mention is to set the belt tension with the kempf tool have the edge of the indicator just flush with the lower edge of the window this will reduce the tension,
but since its an older car the tension can be lower,
otherwise setting it higher will result in the belt being over tensioned when it gets hot. This reading will equate to about a 4.0 tension on the Porsche belt tool the upper edge of the window is about 5.0

Also make sure you have all of the correct drive and driven gears on the belt run since you have a square tooth belt you must have all of the pulleys with square tooth