Fell into the trap! Bought a non-running 928...need help
 

Hi all...Glad to be a part of your forum.

I recently purchased a 1979 euro 928 and brought it home on a trailer. The PO...or should i say 2nd PO was in the process of turning it into a track car by stripping out all the interior to bare metal. I have carpet, instrument cluster, two seats and a steering wheel...yippie... the immediate PO could never get it running.

Anyway, to my problem. I sat up tonight and read gunner's thread from start to finish thinking i might find what I need. Came so close.

The PO also took out the fuel tank and did not have the correct fuel pump. I heard it run...like everyone who buys a non running 928 by the PO dropping a little fuel down the air cleaner and listening to it run for 3 or 4 seconds. I had to have it.

I rigged up a fuel tank in the back hatch and found a running CIS fuel pump. jumpered the relay and got nothing. I undid the incoming fuel line to the distributor and had fuel.

I removed an injector and no fuel. Removed the FD and (i'm a take it apart guy) figured out how the thing worked by taking it apart...yes, i broke it in half, replaced the orings and put it back together clean. (will use the indian head if it starts to seep...i figured the thin steel plate was the gasket.)

turned the key and it fired right up and reved to about 1500 rpm and then dies.

tried it again and could feather the pedal and keep it running but very weak...the farther i stepped on the gas the faster the engine would die.

I will take pictures of my project and post tomorrow. I love the enthusiasm of this forum and I absolutely can't wait to get this shark running (and then tint the windows to avoid having to build the enterior for a while...lol)

Any help would be appreciated. I can't find the right fitting to test for fuel pressure so i'm kind of stumped on that one. We have two kits at our shop and neither one has the correct fittings.

I'm suspecting the WUR and will try to find an early model rabbit one in the morning to swap it out trial and error....we have plenty of those lying around.

Rob btw

good luck

Sounds like a very big project. Are you intending to do a complete restoration? Maybe you need to sit down and figure out how much this is going to cost before investing any more.

I feel your enthusiasm, as I am performing a full restore on a 1978. At least yours runs..lol...I have to use a breaker bar and socket on the crank to see my motor turn...but I am getting there.

I am doing it for the fun, and passion of a project, not so much for the initial investment. I'll gain more in knowledge and experience than I will spend on parts!

Good luck! Lots o good people and help here.

CIS Pressure Testing Setup -
 

Hey BoiseShark, Don’t worry – we will help you get your CIS fuel system straightened out. It may seem a bit daunting at first but it works on a relatively simple pressure balancing principle. Before you even start switching and swapping parts around you MUST know the various primary and (Hot/Cold) control fuel pressures at several important points. Other wise you will be troubleshooting “By Guess and By Golly” and potentially throwing money at an unknown target.

First get yourself a CIS pressure testing setup which will include a fuel pressure guage, multiple hoses, small brass switching manifold and lots of different fittings. They are actually very inexpensive and you’ll use it for diagnosing and tuning things up for the life of your car. JC Whitney sells a nice reliable setup but shop around.

Once you have some CIS test point readings, everyone will be able to make some recommendations on getting your engine running right.

Keep us in the loop and good luck,
Michael:)

Your almost there. Your running on your Cold Start Injector, which is why it's dying after a few seconds. Your issues will be fuel delivery. Remove or clean all the tiny screens, there is one on the intake side of the WUR and almost always clogged on non-running CIS cars. Pull all your Injectors and clean them to see if you can get a good spray pattern. I put carb cleaner in mine and the used an air compressor to push it through.

CIS is very finicky about not being run. On all years, you must make sure the Fuel Tank is totally clean.

You may want to try running a good fuel system cleaner through it. The injectors could be partially plugged and cause the problem you are experiencing. Also, check for a large vacuum leaks. The rubber sleeve between the lower plenum and the throttle body, a bad brake booster, or leaks at the bottom of the rubber sleeves that connect the intake tubes to the upper plenum are common sites for leaks. Also check the air sensor plate (in front of FD) to make sure it is clean and moving freely. If not centered in the venturi, it can stick and cause a drop off.

The CIS test gauges are available from 928RUS, Ideolas garage and JC Whitney's. Once you determine the control and system pressures are OK and the system is clean with no vacuum leaks, the A/F ratio should reset. There are two methods to set it without an exhaust analyzer. Let me know when you get to that point.

This guy doesn't sound very daunted. ;) Not with the swapping wurs out of rabbits etc.

Depends on whether the part numbers match. If not the factory setting of the control pressure may be off. Also, IIRC the 79 euro's WUR had a vacuum diaphram that increased control pressure when the throttle was closed (deceleration).

Warm Up Reg - Adj
 

Hey BoiseShark, Once you have a CIS pressure testing set up, you can accurately test and make adjustments to the primary pump pressure (set within the fuel distributor) and the control pressures (set by the WUR). The cold to warm control pressures on Bosch CIS cars are pretty broad and forgiving, it is the final hot or "run down the road" control pressure that needs to be set precisely for the best power and economy.

Although each WUR is factory set for a specific P/N and vehicle application, it is the thickness of the internal bimetallic bar, balance spring (with or without vacuum assist) and the heater element windings that's the major difference between most parts. In a pinch you can swap the WUR between engine types (4cyl vs 8 cyl) but your adjustment range can sometimes throw a few intermediate (cold to warm to hot) pressure control problems into the mix.

If you want to try and swap out the WUR from another car - there are several good Pelican Part write-ups with photos that demonstrates the basic procedures you would use to correctly set-up the control pressures needed for our V8. Naturally you'd want the specific 928 fuel system spec's for your vehicle on hand before trying to get too far afield.

Good Luck, Michael :)

Thanks for all the feedback guys. The general thought is to get a fuel pressure guage before i go any further so that is what I will do and get back when I can give some good data.
I'm going for a restore....not a stripped frame paint job or anything. Just aiming to get it back to the way it should be...not showroom, just 33 year-old runner.

I noticed today that the rabbit WUR did not have the vacuum assist just like DPW928 pointed out. I did a quick install anyway to see if there was any difference and it made none.

I hope to get back soon because that will mean I have found a pressure guage.

and no, I am not too daunted and also have no clue what i'm doing. Great combination.

Be back with the numbers. Here are a few pics of her

Notice the BMW seats....hybrid!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334270848.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334270909.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1334270939.jpg

The seats actually look good....in fact, the whole car looks better than mine..lol...

Please report your adventure, as I am not far behind as far as fuel goes...got to replace my fuel lines and repair a couple hard lines, and then put my tank in, etc....I hope I dont have to do too much "calibrating" with the CIS. I found a good bosch manual online for the system...I'll try to find where I got it...

I'm in the same boat as you. Got an 82' that doesn't run, but am hopeful that when I can get the extra $300 I need to order parts from Roger that I will be able to get her running. Time will tell on this one for me. And you as well. Best of luck and can't wait to see/hear a video of it running.

How cool is this...you guys are at the same point as me. I am quickly figuring out the CIS system (I think) Airtek, so I will try and help you as much as I can as we go along or vica versa... btw...i've broken every vacuum line that i've touched. replaced them all today.

and whatudruvin, I hope you can get her runnin along with us. What part are you ordering? What do you think is the problem(s)?

The name of this thread sounds like "Suspicous Minds" by Elvis Presley. lol If it starts and runs, I agree in cleaning the fuel system. Run B12 Chemtool. Screw fuel injector cleaner, or Seafoam. Get Berryman's B12 Chemtool and run it through the system. It may clear up immediately and run perfect or it may take time. Keep starting it, and keep running clean fuel and B12 into it.

Make sure you get a fuel gauge set made for Bosch Kjet, you need the special fittings and valve system to measure differential pressures.

Roger at Home - 928's R Us Porsche Parts Store has one as cheap as anybody.

Thanks for the tips guys...looks like we have a support group within a support group here...lol...

I just ordered all my vacuum lines, so I will going on that adventure in the next week or so...

I am probably moving soon, which is going to screw me on the project, as I will have to put the car in storage for about 8-10 months....

But on a positive note, I have convinced the wife and builder that the workshop needs to be built while the house foundation is going up so we have a "place to store our stuff" ... lets see how I can get 25 years of house crap crammed into a corner, and still have room for the 928 and tools :)

And still have room to work on it!

As for my parts I don't really have anything wrong with my car. It's an '82 so I don't have all the fuel issues like you guys are having.

I am ordering all new water hoses for my car, thermostat, and a in tank fuel screen. That is about all that I need. Other than cleaning my fuel tank and replacing the vacuum lines. But other than that I think I am good to go. I hope so! :p

That would be nice W'drivin. I hope you're right.

I found a guy in Portland that has two old 928s (plural..not S's) and he is willing to let me pay a flat fee and take whatever I want off either of them...I'm not telling what the flat fee is...lol...but it's reasonable to strip both cars of interior and exterior parts.

I'm headed there now...about a 9 hour drive from me.

I will read this post tonight when i get there and I know I'm opening a can of worms but I know we all need hard to find parts sometimes so I'm putting this out there....

I any of you need strange little parts....not major takedown stuff-engine, transmission etc...post them here and I will see about getting them for you. It's not going to cost me any extra and If i don't need them...you got em.

One is a 79 auto and the other is an 82 stick. I'm not sure exactly on the year of the second one, but it's close.

Off I go on my big adventure!

I wish I knew what I needed.... If one of them has black leather interior I need a drivers rear sun visor thing.

But I have already done quite a bit on my car already. I have a thread on here showing everything that I have done so far. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-928-technical-forum/636721-new-forums-porsche.html

But it may be a month or 2 before I get the $300 I need to order these parts. =( And it is making me really sad. So close too.

Pickup Truck and Trailer -
 

Hey BoiseShark, You should take this opportunity to get some stuff to sell, trade or use for yourself in the future. I do not need anything at this time but - if you are able to pick up anything under the “one price buys it all” umbrella for both cars you should take a pickup and trailer. ;) I am sure there will be others on this site that might recommend something as well.

Just a couple of thoughts:
1. Get all the electrical stuff you can get at. For example - Under the relay panel at the foot of the passenger side – use a flat tip screwdriver to gently pry up under each relay and get them all on both cars.
2. Pull any and all the front and rear head/fog/tail light assemblies
3. You might consider using wire cutters to get the engine harness plugs located on the passenger side of the engine compartment.
4. Remove the “Negative battery leads” (one bolt) on both cars
5. Pull the brake calipers – if a car is already jacked up off the ground
6. You might consider pulling the POD as an assembly to have some spare instruments on hand and the glove box door if they are in good condition
7. How about the rims – you could always use an extra couple or use for trade
8. The collapsible spares and the jacks can be useful
9. Don’t forget to look for the rear tool panels at the rear of the car. An extra 928 spark plug tool/extension in particular is nice to have.
10. Check to see if there is the small air compressors around in the hatch area.
11. Windshield wiper motors and plastic cover just in front of the windshield
12. Brake booster/master cylinder assembly
13. Headlight motors –
14. Radiator Overflow tank and radiator cap assembly –
15. CIS Fuel related parts – Distributor Assembly, fuel injectors, warm up regulator, fuel lines to injectors, fuel pump, etc....
16. Throttle plate assemblies –
17. The thermostat housing and associated temperature sensing thermistors
18. The electric radiator cooling fan assembly
19. Remove the arm/ belt driven cooling fan assembly
20. The vacuum control solenoids behind the console base if accessible
21. Power steering reservoir and possibly the pump
22. The alternator and starter if the car is already jacked up off the ground
23. Plastic Air Intake Tubes and Air Filter Assemblies
24. Wait a minute, to save time, it would be easier to just fork lift both cars onto a flat bed trailer.... :)

Good Luck Michael

Lol. That's what I was thinking..... Take both of em! The wife doesn't know it yet, but my intent is to start stocking "spares" and future projects! Lol

The early cars don't have much of special value, generally if it breaks on your car its broken or about to break on any donor car.

Unless you need a specific body part, nothing but the mirrors and front spoiler if good, maybe bumper covers, but its a slippery slope and takes a lot of space.
All the lights in good shape, frames, lenses etc.
Every electric motor or electrical device especially instrument pod and center controls for AC, and complete CE panel
One fuel tank and supporting hardware.
Injectors and all supporting bits like fuel regulators, dist, wur.
Any decent or recent looking hoses, nothing that is soft or bulged.
Set of 16" wheels.
Tracks and seat belts.
Bilstein shocks.
Steering rack, PS pumps, air pump, alternator, any special brackets like a pulley for AC delete etc.
All the clutch parts including firewall plate, torque tubes, manual Trans. Check AT for LSD.
Any interior parts in good shape, or even some nasty ones to practice repairs on.

With a trailer that a whole 928 fits on, pick the nice one and put it on the trailer to pull parts off at your leisure at home, then fill the interior with parts from the other car.

Keep all the nuts and bolts, especially hose clamps.

My folks put up a 20x40 garage with plumbing for a toilet etc, then moved out of a rented house and lived in the garage for two years as the house was being built and finished.

good list...

If we get the financing to go through (I'll know in a coupe weeks)...my shop will be 21x44, plenty of room to work on a car or two... Don't think the wife and girls will want to move into it tho'!

We are turning our existing home into a rental, and then living in a "rented" house (cheap, it belongs to a buddy), during construction....complicated, but the builder and bank says 6-month construction window...I am thinking 10...we'll see. The builder said he can get the shop up on the pad in a few weeks, as soon as the lot is cleared....If I can pack efficiently, I should still have some room to work on the car...you know, on the weekends, while I'm checking on the builders progress and junk... :)

Good excuse hahaha :rolleyes:

thanks for the lists guys. I'm going to paste to a word document and take the list with me so I don't get googlie eyed and forget anything. I'll look for a rear black visor as well.

For some reason, he won't sell a whole car (cars). It's hard to understand the mind of a 928 owner sometimes.

Leaving the hotel now...they're 20 minutes away and I can't wait!

;)

man...I wish i was with you!

Take pictures ...

Back in Boise. I got your rear visor Whatudrivin...both had black interiors. I was able to salvage a complete interior for my car and a few little extras here and there including gas tank and both fuel pumps (will test today to see of they work) I wanted to post this video before I left but didn't have the time.
I got her to run on her own for about 10 minutes and then she died again. I really think it's fuel pressure....and no, I still don't have a pressure guage. Sorry to all the people that don't take stabs at the dark. I'm sure I'll have to break down and go buy one in the next day or two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOz7Y5YFIuk&feature=youtu.be

Since it starts alright cold then dies as it warms up, your A/F mixture may be too lean. To get a near correct setting try the following.

Jumper the 30 and 87 connectors for the fuel pump but don't start the engine. Slowly turn the A/F mixture screw to rich (CW) until you hear fuel going to the injectors. Back off the adjustment (CCW) until the fuel stops going to the injectors. The A/F mixture should be close enough for proper running. Readjust the idle and restart the engine to see if it still dies after 10 minutes.

Sounds like you had a blast taking those cars apart. I wish I could find a good deal on some red leather seats that are in decent condition. Great to hear yours run. Hopefully soon I will be in the same boat.

Hello BoiseShark, I realize this thread is a little cold, but I ran across it today and thought I'd touch base. I also am in Boise and working on getting my 928 fuel system, and probably electrical, vacuum, etc figured out. I will be ordering the fuel pressure gauge and you are welcome to use it if you still have need.

Hey Gold Rush,

It would be great to get with you to see how your project is going. I have actually met one other forum member that lives out Eagle way.

We are thinking about getting a 928 club together. I think i got my fuel pressure sorted out, but I would love to help you get yours going. In the CIS school, I'm about a second grader...lol... but learning.

Give me a call at (208) 794-5017 and we can get together.

Well, how bout some updates bro?

Lol...mine is in pause....did not even get the chance to put my tank back in.....

Hey Air,

I still have your visor btw....lol...such a slacker!

I go through days of joy and then of frustration. It seems to run differently every day. I have been driving it to work although it is an adventure, but it makes it there and back...;)

I found a aluminum mercedez fuel distributor from a junkyard for 24 bucks and bought it just for the hell of it and installed it with a rebuilt WUR from 928 international. I also have an inline fuel pressure guage so I can constantly see control pressure. That was my big problem.

Runs a little chuggy comming off idle but when I get it above 2 grand, it smooths out and sounds great with good power.

I am thinking about getting new injectors because their spray seems sporadic when i tested them and some kept dripping afterwards. I'll take a video tomorrow from a cold start so you can check it out.

At times I wish I was not so in love with this thing. I drive it around with all the interior still stripped out except for the doors. I'm looking for the seals for the rear quarter glass because water pours in when it rains so I don't want to install the rest of the interior until I get that fixed.

Lights and turn signals were all fixed by taking out the fuses and cleaning up the contacts...silly how easy it was. I also put dialectic compound on every connector I come in contact with. Even the fuses...lol.

I can't wait till you have your running...but i understand the move and all.

Bought four mixed matched tires today and had them put on so I would not be constantly worried about a blow-out. When she becomes my daily, I'll sport for a matching set.

All's good in Idaho land...until I start her up tomorrow and all has changed...lol

I have to say I feel pretty good about it considering the last two owners could not get it running! So eventhough it still has some grimlins, it goes...woot

Lol...forgot about the visor...hahaha

I am so wanting to get back to working on the girl....i am having all kinds of trouble with the jerk inspector over my building....but the clock is ticking, and I am about 2 weeks from delivery and set up, so I am positive we will get it all resolved. Then to relocate the car, then move ALL our belongings ot of temporary storage to the new building...then I can play....all while wiring up a main panel and getting the power company to hang a meter, and juice up the shop!

Geez....anyway...should be back on it soon....

Here's a picture of the driver door interior and one of her all cleaned up.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341884856.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1341885246.jpg

wow...really nice...mine is soooo far away from that....

It has a pretty nice body and paint job...other than that....well, that's about as far as it went...lol

I'm sure we all have good and bad...let's just try hard to make it all BADz...;)