New 928 Owner - Again...

[otif]

Sorry in advance for the long post...

So... I came across an opportunity to purchase a 1988 928 S4. I had a 1982 Euro car that I just couldn't figure out, but luckily someone that's currently on this forum bought from me, and really made it beautiful. Forgot his name, but will post once I remember. Maybe one of you guys will remember his name. He has a 1982 Green 928 Euro with BBS wheels. I think he lives in NC. Regardless, he did a great job on that car.

Anyhow, after the last 928, I got hooked on 911's. Bought a few, sold a few, have a few. However, I'm not just a 911 guy, I'm a Porsche guy. I've always loved the 928's and I'm really happy that I found one (again). It's a white on blue S4, auto, with about 110K miles. Came with a good story too. Lady was at her mechanics shop 15 years ago when she was approached by "a nice older gentleman", who asked if the car was for sale. She told him yes and after a while the guy told her he couldn't afford it. She offered to "lease" him the car. Do you see where I'm going with this? He made one payment and she never heard from him again! Fast forward 15 years... The lady calls me from a letter I sent (I am very active in searching for Porsches) and tells me that she finally found the car! The brother of the guy that "leased" it, called her the day before she received my letter, said that his brother had passed away, and that after looking through some papers, he thinks her car is in his driveway!

Sorry to bore you guys with that story, but I just think it's the best one I've heard up to now.

So now for the reason behind my post...

I get the car to my warehouse, and, in a nutshell, it starts on starter fluid, but dies immediately. I thought maybe it was a fuel issue, so I siphoned out all the gas I could and put new fuel in. Same thing happens. I remembered the whole 87 to 30 bridge on the fuel pump relay to r if it's working, and I didn't hear anything. I checked the fuel pump fuse and it's blown. So, I replaced the fuel pump fuse, leave the bridge in place, and tried starting it. same thing again, except this time I smelled burning plastic. I check the relay bridge and it's hot as heck, then I checked the fuse, and it was not just blown, it was f'n smelted. Had to pull it out with pliers.

So, as any rational person would do, I put the tools away, sat at my computer, and began typing this post to see if any of you guys can provide some insight as to what I should do next.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[XLR8928]

I'll bet the fuel pump, or wiring to it is way shorted. BTW- nice car.
-K

[stepson]

Detach the 2 wires at the fuel pump. Put a new fuse in. Turn the key. I'm betting that the pump itself has a short. replace the pump.

[Fsharp9]

replace fuse' lose bridge, disconnect fuel pump wires at pump and put a volt meter across see if you have voltage when you turn the key , if so pump is bad. Start there then worry about a short , Baby steps to keep your sanity !

[Danglerb]

Stop trying to start the car, and give it a complete check over, timing belt, rubber hoses, all the normal safety issues. Fix those areas first, clean all the grounds and make sure the battery is fully charged and then look at getting it started.

[Cam in Aus]

I love the S4 (and above) shape in white. Congratulations on your find. I hope you get everything sorted really soon.

[Landseer]

Perhaps this is the green car?


First 928 -The story(nightmare?)begins

[Landseer]

Nice looking S4, need more pictures.

Regarding the white car, you know it runs, stop trying to start it.
Take a month or two and go through a methodical refresh of electrical and mechanical refresh.
Awaken it slowly.

Fusebox out; look for any shorts / melts. Separately trace fuel circuit.
Re-fuse; 10 new 51 relays.


New fuel pump; filter, first remove and properly clean tank.

Strip front of engine, new wp/tb and belt pathway pulleys. New caps, rotors.

Strip top of engine, intake refresh, new knock sensors, new temp II, new CPS, new TPs, new idle valve.
Idea here is replace premptively what we all know fails at this age.
Those that troubleshoot and replace only failed items are a frustrated group of owners!
You must replace all fuel lines, btw, very important.
New wire set that includes coil wires, use only the name brand from Roger or Mark, cheap set uses unreliable internal connectors.
If you ignore anything, maybe skip the pimping/painting of the intake plenum, its just cosmetic.

Below, pull off bell housing, remove clamp, release flexplate tension and check endplay, very important if S4 auto, install PClamp to stabilize.

Willl likely need some tie rods and oil pan gasket and motor mounts. Brake rotors, pads and front wheel bearings might be able to wait til later.

I've rescued and re-awoken 6 of them, above method is only one I've used. Hard to resist making them run first. But knock damage and other potential perils are huge on these cars.

A great deal of damage seems to be done by folks do trying to get their cheap acquisitions to run "to see if they should invest more". Buy the parts, spend the time, make it reliable.

Go to "dwaynes garage" for very detailed pictorials and step by step writeups that show most of above work on S4 cars.

Basically, perform the maintenance equivalent of your relentless and creative car acquisition process.

[MPDano]

Yeah, I think your talking about Gunar. From what I remember, he rebuilt the motor and ended up pulling it out a few times to get it right. Then got his CIS issues sorted by getting the "correct" Fuel Distributor.

Glad you stopped trying to start the car. Listen to guys above as your going to destroy that car and end up selling it to Gunar to get it done right.

[tmpusfugit]

and one of the biggie first checks to make is to check the flex plate for deflection. No need to do any of the rest if the engine has TBF, and some fair number of these vintage cars seem to have the problem.....see it once in your own car and you will always be nervous until you see no flex and no aluminum flecks in the oil.....

[XLR8928]

Why do the automatic equipped cars suffer TBF, and the manuals do not? Does Porsche have the flex plate under tension? If this is the case, it makes a strong case for a pre-oiler, to keep the TB from being damaged at start-up.
-K

[tmpusfugit]

from another thread on TBF;

"Save yourself a whole lot of wasting of time and money and look at this thread in detail Just bought a TBF car - Rennlist Discussion Forums
You can join Rennlist free......

I have been substantially involved in the car in that thread, so I do have some experience with your symptoms. Do a search here on Pelican and also on RL for "TBF" and draw your own conclusions.

And yes, the flex plate will force the crank forward far enough long enough to eat the thrust bearing. It will run fine until the counterweights on the crank start to mill the inside of the block. When it gets that far along the engine is TOAST. Can't be repaired with a normal processes or reasonable price. Often the block will crack. Classic failure symptom, engine will run when cold. Will not turn over when warm/hot.

You should check the flex plate for signs of distortion, also there will be aluminum flakes in the oil filter, sometimes in the pan some times not...there is a lot written on this problem. Search is your friend. "

[otif]

Yep! That's it...

Originally Posted by Landseer

Perhaps this is the green car?


First 928 -The story(nightmare?)begins

[otif]

I read some of his posts, an felt horrible that the engine was in such bad shape but it was great to see that he built a very nice car at the end!

definitely going to listen, and follow what has been said thus far. Going to start with Landseer's recommendations first. Should take a bit, but this is a cool car, that would make a great driver for me one day.

I'll post more pics soon. Want to give you guys good before pics so you can really enjoy the after ones!

Thanks to everyone for their input!!!

One more thing... Should I change the interior color? Not a huge fan of blue interiors, but don't want to mess with the originality of the car, either.

Originally Posted by MPDano

Yeah, I think your talking about Gunar. From what I remember, he rebuilt the motor and ended up pulling it out a few times to get it right. Then got his CIS issues sorted by getting the "correct" Fuel Distributor.

Glad you stopped trying to start the car. Listen to guys above as your going to destroy that car and end up selling it to Gunar to get it done right.

[otif]

Thanks for all the recommendations, I'll keep you all posted as I move forward with this project. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Landseer

Nice looking S4, need more pictures.

Regarding the white car, you know it runs, stop trying to start it.
Take a month or two and go through a methodical refresh of electrical and mechanical refresh.
Awaken it slowly.

Fusebox out; look for any shorts / melts. Separately trace fuel circuit.
Re-fuse; 10 new 51 relays.


New fuel pump; filter, first remove and properly clean tank.

Strip front of engine, new wp/tb and belt pathway pulleys. New caps, rotors.

Strip top of engine, intake refresh, new knock sensors, new temp II, new CPS, new TPs, new idle valve.
Idea here is replace premptively what we all know fails at this age.
Those that troubleshoot and replace only failed items are a frustrated group of owners!
You must replace all fuel lines, btw, very important.
New wire set that includes coil wires, use only the name brand from Roger or Mark, cheap set uses unreliable internal connectors.
If you ignore anything, maybe skip the pimping/painting of the intake plenum, its just cosmetic.

Below, pull off bell housing, remove clamp, release flexplate tension and check endplay, very important if S4 auto, install PClamp to stabilize.

Willl likely need some tie rods and oil pan gasket and motor mounts. Brake rotors, pads and front wheel bearings might be able to wait til later.

I've rescued and re-awoken 6 of them, above method is only one I've used. Hard to resist making them run first. But knock damage and other potential perils are huge on these cars.

A great deal of damage seems to be done by folks do trying to get their cheap acquisitions to run "to see if they should invest more". Buy the parts, spend the time, make it reliable.

Go to "dwaynes garage" for very detailed pictorials and step by step writeups that show most of above work on S4 cars.

Basically, perform the maintenance equivalent of your relentless and creative car acquisition process.