Noob advice

[brjak]

I am not the most hands on kind of car guy. I have owned classic mustangs etc. I have an option to purchase an 89 928s4. Its had the timing belt/water pump / 2 heads rebuilt in the last 30,000KM. Included is a complete history of all the maintenance etc.
Everything is in working order on the car, I'm looking for a Sunday driver, I would probably drive 1500KM per year.

Everyone screams money pit money pit money pit. I don't mind spending money on regular maintenance etc. But, is it a car that can out of control?

Any advice for a new owner would be appreciated.

[harborman]

Why the two heads rebuilt at 30K? This is not a Mustang and yes, parts can be quite expensive. What is the present mileage? Get someone near you who knows the 928 to look at it.

[brjak]

It has 166KM. One of the previous owners had the tensioner warning bypassed. So, for the present owner the water pump seized without him knowing. Causing the 2 heads needing to be rebuilt. as well the timing and water pump. All the work was done 30K ago. not at 30k.

[syoo8]

Tensioner warning bypassed: Does it have a Porkensioner?

Sounds like you want to run- fast- from this car.

[brjak]

Sorry, I should have added, that the tensioner warning is hooked up and working properly. That was one of the repairs carried out when the owner had all the work done. My terminology may not be perfect. But, it was the warning light that the timing belt needs changing was bypassed, or removed. Hence the reason for the large repair. I have ask for a copy of the invoice but mentioned it cost in rely of 12K once all was completed.

[Pete R]

Originally Posted by brjak

Everyone screams money pit money pit money pit. I don't mind spending money on regular maintenance etc. But, is it a car that can out of control?

Any advice for a new owner would be appreciated.

Yes, things can get out of control real fast, especially if you aren't doing work yourself and paying someone $100/hr. Some parts are reasonable, some are stupid expensive and even some are no longer available. Maybe it could be your Saturday driver, at least the banks are open in the morning
That being said, a well maintained nice car can be extremely reliable and have reasonable costs.
It's kind of like a woman, if you marry the right one your all set, if you get a bad one you could lose half your ****.

[harborman]

Originally Posted by brjak

It has 166KM. One of the previous owners had the tensioner warning bypassed. So, for the present owner the water pump seized without him knowing. Causing the 2 heads needing to be rebuilt. as well the timing and water pump. All the work was done 30K ago. not at 30k.

I would be reluctant to buy this car!

[brjak]

Originally Posted by harborman

I would be reluctant to buy this car!

Could you elaborate? It seems to have all the maintenance done. All the invoices for said services. Although the owner prior to the current one may have been a little loose in service. Current owner has had the car over 10 years. has done all the proper maintenance.

B

[harborman]

Originally Posted by brjak

Could you elaborate? It seems to have all the maintenance done. All the invoices for said services. Although the owner prior to the current one may have been a little loose in service. Current owner has had the car over 10 years. has done all the proper maintenance.

B

If you are set on buying the car, buy it. Hard to make a judgement without actually seeing and driving it. But you mentioned some unusual work that had been done on the motor. Things like that bring up red flags, reflected in some of the comments you asked for.

[brjak]

Thanks for input everybody.

[19psi]

If you're not a hands on kind of car guy, the 928 probably isn't the car for you. While it's a standard internal combustion engine that's well thought out and easy to work on, it has some quirks that the average shop will not know or care about. The average mechanic has worked on hundreds of Mustangs and Toyota Camrys, but most likely has never seen a 928 engine in person.

For instance, you need a special tool to properly adjust the timing belt tension and the instructions need to be followed closely. If the car is an automatic, there is the thrust bearing failure issue. Once a year you should release tension on the flex-plate and check free play measurements. If the original owner let the timing belt go until it snapped and killed all the valves, odds are the tension has never been released from the flex-plate. If there is too much pressure on the thrust bearing, it grinds itself to death and destroys the engine. This is a Porsche design flaw and not part of general maintenance listed in any manual.

When something breaks, you will not be going to NAPA or AutoZone to pick up a replacement part. We have several dedicated parts suppliers that make this hobby worth it and their knowledge is incredible. Downside is that you're going to wait a few days for your parts to be delivered. Most parts are priced reasonable and they work hard at reproducing or finding alternatives for NLA parts. The more expensive parts will be on par with going to a Ford dealer to buy a part for a current model Ford. They aren't AutoZone cheap but they also aren't Ferrari or Lamborghini expensive.

The money pit guys are those who claim a timing belt costs $5,000 to replace because they take their car to a place that rapes them senseless. Reality is that it's an afternoon job that's easier to do than on many 4 cylinder cars.
I'd really recommend attending a 928 gathering in your area. It would be a fun learning experience before jumping into any 928.

[Mat 71]

Hi,

I have a '90 S4 with 320,000 km on it. I will give you a brief history of my cost to run over the last 5 years, knowing that the torque converter was done and the timing belt, water pump etc., --- the car was previously owned by the mechanic who works for Roger at 928rus in Texas where I bought it from the owner after him.

When it arrived I replaced all brakes, discs, sensors etc., by myself which was like doing any other brake job...actually got the discs from NAPA. ~$650 in parts CAD. Labour free.

A couple of years ago I had all of the valves seals go, so I had an engine shop here in Cambridge Ontario do the work with me supplying the parts list sourced from Roger at 928rus in Texas. He is great to deal with! He put the list together (~$500 U.S.) and the work was done including having the intake redone, painted and the valve covers painted as well --- it was $1,600 CAD labour.

If the owner lets you, you should take it to Auguste LeCourte in St. Catharines for a PPI. Porsche factory trained and absolutely knows his stuff.

Not a horrible car to work on, a lot of fun, and comfortable to drive. Parts can be expensive, but that's the way it is. If it's a Sunday driver, then it sounds like regular maintenance will keep you going hopefully without too much hassle!

Mat

[brjak]

Originally Posted by 19psi

If you're not a hands on kind of car guy, the 928 probably isn't the car for you. While it's a standard internal combustion engine that's well thought out and easy to work on, it has some quirks that the average shop will not know or care about. The average mechanic has worked on hundreds of Mustangs and Toyota Camrys, but most likely has never seen a 928 engine in person.

For instance, you need a special tool to properly adjust the timing belt tension and the instructions need to be followed closely. If the car is an automatic, there is the thrust bearing failure issue. Once a year you should release tension on the flex-plate and check free play measurements. If the original owner let the timing belt go until it snapped and killed all the valves, odds are the tension has never been released from the flex-plate. If there is too much pressure on the thrust bearing, it grinds itself to death and destroys the engine. This is a Porsche design flaw and not part of general maintenance listed in any manual.

When something breaks, you will not be going to NAPA or AutoZone to pick up a replacement part. We have several dedicated parts suppliers that make this hobby worth it and their knowledge is incredible. Downside is that you're going to wait a few days for your parts to be delivered. Most parts are priced reasonable and they work hard at reproducing or finding alternatives for NLA parts. The more expensive parts will be on par with going to a Ford dealer to buy a part for a current model Ford. They aren't AutoZone cheap but they also aren't Ferrari or Lamborghini expensive.

The money pit guys are those who claim a timing belt costs $5,000 to replace because they take their car to a place that rapes them senseless. Reality is that it's an afternoon job that's easier to do than on many 4 cylinder cars.
I'd really recommend attending a 928 gathering in your area. It would be a fun learning experience before jumping into any 928.

Very informative thank you. 2 owners ago, It was the water pump that seized not the timing belt snapping.
I don't mind spending money on maintenance. even more on quality parts is acceptable. With Timing belt and water pump done 30K ago, That will probably be good for me for at least 10 years, I only plane on 1500K per year. Sunday afternoon kinda stuff. Really just looking for a fun car to drive.

The car is 10K certified. The owner does have all the work that he's done on it catalogued.

I guess I'm asking what are some of the yearly/bi yearly things that need attention to ensure a proper running car.

[Danglerb]

Until someone expert in the 928 looks over the car and verifies that the shop that did the work knows what its doing, value is a wild guess. Unless you plan as many of us have to become the expert 928 mechanic, finding an expert 928 should be your first step.

Generally what needs to be done is a major service, fixing all the stuff the previous owner skipped, this can be expensive. I've seen very nice low mileage cars that had $6k USD catch up service done, then no issues for years, but that was using one of the best 928 mechanics around, Greg Brown.

A concern I have with this car and the $12k service is that it seems excessive, which is often a sign the shop knows little about the 928.

[Landseer]

Past service and repair sounds reasonable to me. Price on high side, but not the worst we've heard of, especially if electrical sensors and rubber was changed in intake area.
(McLean VA P dealer reportedly charged a rennlister over 10,000 for a routine TB replacement a few years ago). Car might be fine. Then again, if 30,000 miles and more than 4 years ago, car is approaching next TB/WP service intermal. Reciept would be helpful. Fuel lines need to have been replaced. Very important.

Water pump seizing, and/or other pathway rollers and guides becoming damaged, are the paths to timing belt failure. Same for 944/951.

89 automatic has best gearing ratios. Fun car.

Intermittent electrical issues can emerge. Suspension work / shocks can cost more than typical cars. Cleaning grounds and keeping interior dry are key.

If exterior is straight and car is original paint, interior is clean and car was garaged, not used in winter, then those things are big plusses.

They are hands on cars. Hobby cars. Old cars. It can get out of control a couple ways. You kind of have to be all-in, part of the hobby, else, with deep pockets and a good relationship with a 928 specfic mechanic.